KiwiMoto72 Motorcycling & Motorbikes
Hey everyone and thank you so much for tuning into our Podcast. This Podcast journey is purely a hobby for me. I am passionate about motorcycling and even more passionate about sharing my love for the sport through the guests from all walk of our two wheeled world on the show. I am especially interested in motorcycle safety and learning how to ride well on the street and on the track through the experiences of great racer, riders, and coaches.
The show was inspired by my popular YouTube interviews, this show dives deep into the world of motorcycles, riders, and the journeys that define them. From seasoned enthusiasts to everyday adventurers, we explore the passion, challenges, and wisdom that fuel the motorcycle community.
Whether you're a new rider, a gearhead, or someone who loves a good road tale, you'll find inspiration, connection, and a few laughs along the way. So gear up, tune in, and let's ride into the heart of motorcycle culture—one conversation at a time. Video of all Podcasts available on Youtube at @kiwimoto72
Contact: angus@kiwimoto72.com for enquires.
KiwiMoto72 Motorcycling & Motorbikes
From motocross spanners to KTM mastermind: how Paul Trevathan built a world-class career and a winning culture around rider feel, data, and grit
Hey everyone and welcome back to the podcast. So I've had a few MotoGP folks on the podcast over the last year or so. We've had Steven Crafar on, we've had Matt Oxley, famous MotoGP journalist, X racer, all that fun stuff. Claude Buchanan was on, who's a Moto 3 rookie this year. And today it's an absolute pleasure to have Paul Travaffin on. Now, Paul is the crew chief for KTM Racing's Pedro Acosta. So he's the guy in the box. He's the guy running the show. And he has a really, really interesting background and history and is also from New Zealand. And not just New Zealand, he's from a deep South Island of New Zealand, which for whatever reason has the habit of producing just some really great motorsport talent over the last hundred years or so. Who's counting? But a lot. Most of New Zealand's talent and motor sports has come from that part of New Zealand. And we'll talk a bit about that as well. So I hope you really enjoy this podcast. And please also do me a favor. I need more feedback, need more comments, need more reviews, all that stuff so that I can learn to bring you the right content, the right size content, the right types of speakers, the right sort of energy. So please uh make a comment or you can send me a note, uh, angus at kibimoto72.com. We'd love to hear from you. Uh so without further ado, let's go and have a chat with Paul. Well, good day, everyone. Um, as I said earlier, it's awesome to have um another fellow Kiwi joining me um on the podcast. And uh today I'm really excited to welcome uh Paul Trevathan to the podcast. And uh Paul, um man, what a great weekend you just had. It's a great time to be talking to you. Welcome. Tell us a bit about yourself, who you are, all that fun stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, welcome. Uh yeah, hi guys. Uh good to be on the podcast. It's something that we've been trying to get to get to do for a little time now, but uh we always seem to miss each other and never quite get the the timing right. But anyway, we we're gonna have a good uh time this time and uh try to get to know you guys can try to get to know me a little bit better through the nice questions from Angus there, and we can uh see where it all leads. But uh yeah, as many maybe people know who are following MotoGP, I'm uh a crew chief for uh Pedro Acosta. Um Kiwi born, Kiwi bred. Um from the Dunedin area, but was born a little bit more south from that, from Balkutha. Was a motocross rider growing up, so went around New Zealand with my parents flat out uh on the back of the trailer, took the bikes and stuff, and uh spent most of our holidays hauling around that. So uh had a great time doing that when I was younger. And then uh yeah, made the made the jump across to Europe. It was actually not planning to ever become a Motor TV crew chief in all things. It was uh I wanted to see the world, that was my biggest ambition at that time. And being uh uh motocross boy, I wanted to really get into Europe and and check out uh the northern Europe area, Belgium and places like that where it was a motocross maker at that time. So uh we left with uh backpacks and uh one girlfriend from the time, and um I think it uh was ninety one in 1991 when we finally did it, and the moment that okay, maybe I'll be away for two years, two and a half years, and often we went with one-way tickets to Europe. So we sort of traveled through Hawaii and went across America from LA to New York and ended up in Europe. Uh did the most stupid thing in my life by cycling uh through uh Switzerland to uh uh the Netherlands. So that was quite a quite a trip. I went through France and uh into Belgium and things and over over across the motocross designations of that year in '91, which was in Balkans World in the Netherlands. And that's sort of where the story changed a little bit. At that time, you guys would have known that the you know, you know, the King brothers, of course, and there was also uh another writer called Troy Magazine. And uh they were writing for the New Zealand team at that stage. I think maybe Daryl Atkins was Darryl King maybe in Troy. And at that time I met up with him, and of course we knew each other from the motocross days, and I started to help him out that weekend. And then uh at that time I met uh another factory motocross mechanic called Graham Kent, who was a factory KTM mechanic at that time. Yeah, and then uh yeah, then we uh at that time um he was asking what I wanted to do. It was coming into the winter, and to be honest, I was thinking about picking fruit or doing sitting on the Greek beach renting out jet skis or something completely different than mechanic in, of course, because I'd I'd uh done my motorcycle apprenticeship in New Zealand and I'd just finished that before we left, basically. Did spent another year working there before we left. And then um and there he said that he knew uh a guy who was looking for somebody who knew something about four strokes in the motocross motorcycle shop in uh Belgium, and I said, Oh, maybe that would be much better than going to England for the winter for sure, because I sort of wanted to stay in that area a little bit and be more mainland Europe, you know. And then that was a big turning point. Uh I ended up meeting these guys. They looked at me, I was 21 years old, and they looked at me a bit suspicious, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you sure you know what you what you can do and can't do? And I said, Yeah, look, why don't you give me a try and we see? So I ended up going back with them in the at the end of that event. And uh car spent the night there, and within a week they gave me an apartment and a and a car so I could haul around, and so it was quite successful. And this uh this shop turned out to be like uh a little motocross mecca of uh northern Europe. You know, all the top Scandinavian riders used to come down and base themselves there. There was this big car park out the back, and uh they had a sauna and sort of like a communal working area and and cleaning area, and they had a massive workshop inside, so it was like uh they did everything from tuning to suspension and all sorts. So it was like I landed on my feet there really well, you know. And then uh there were two crazy guys, uh earned black money, you know, for good, good black money, I must say, paid paid every Saturday morning and uh we lived the life there through the winter, to be honest. We had a really good time, and then uh after that the racing world sort of started to hone in a little bit more. Um, I got the first offer to go to Germany to work with uh Bernd Eckenbach, uh German motocross 250 rider at that time for the world championship. I remember him. Uh yeah, so I thought, okay, why not give that a go? So dragged my girlfriend off. We went again and lived in the south of Germany, just in the small village outside Stuttgart. Uh that was a disaster. That was uh it was like I didn't leave New Zealand and uh to go around the world and spend my time in Germany. I think I was too young to understand everything there. And uh to be honest, me and the rider didn't particularly get on that good. He was a nice enough guy, but we just didn't click, you know. You you'd go to the south of France training and spend 12 hours in a truck and you didn't talk to each other, you know. It was like fool. So uh, but uh the the the the parents, the family were fantastic people, and I got on good there. So I stuck it out for like three months, and then I said, nah, this is this is not what I want to do, you know. This is not where I want to be. And it just so happened that the shop that I was working at before phoned me up and asked how things were going and uh offered me a job back again. They just got a dyno and uh asked me to come back and run that. So I was like, oh, okay, what perfect time. And I said, How long does it take to get here? And they said we can come tomorrow. So it was a quick trip back to Belgium, and then um I spent another year working there, and at that time the King brothers were based there as well. So both Shane and Daryl. And then uh I got started to my first professional year of working only solely for racing was 2000, uh sorry, 1994 then. And me and Daryl worked together in the 500 World Motocross Championship. So that was also uh yeah, me and Daryl got on very, very well. We we were living next door to each other also at that time in Belgium. We yeah, we're having a great year to be honest, and then he crashed and and broke his sternum. And of course, being a privateer and everything else, the fee wasn't racing, the money wasn't coming in. So it sort of left it a little bit of a oh, what are we gonna do now type situation? And again, quite lucky that there was a uh company called Spess Exhaust Systems, and uh the owner was perished, and he said, Oh, why don't you come and help me out on the dyno? You can help me do the development, I do the pipes, you do running the dyno, and we can get a lot of work done quicker. And I was like, Okay, I mean this guy was a unique character, you know. He was the the guy that used to wear sunglasses basically when he's welding and always had the cigar sitting on the edge of his lip. Yeah, and uh yeah, had a hammer that had his handprint in it and shape that no one else could use, but uh an unbelievable sheet metal worker, and uh yeah, was incredible. What this guy could do with his hands and uh and a flat sheet of metal was fantastic, you know. But uh we got on very well and I worked there for like three or four months, I guess. And at that time, Kavana were looking for a guy to run to help them out with Johan Boonen, another motocross rider from Belgium. So I started talking to them about uh becoming a full-time uh mechanic at that stage, and it just so happened at that time where also Pero was uh doing the factory Kawasaki motocross uh 250 pipes and stuff for him, a guy called Jan de Grote from the Netherlands, and he used to come to us quite often, we're doing development together, and while this was all going on, he kept asking questions to Perro about me a little bit and then come to the point that he said, Oh, can you come and see me also? So I hadn't quite signed the deal from Huskabana, and so I said, Okay, let's come and see him, and then uh I think we spoke for an hour and made a deal. You know, this guy and I clicked uh the Kawasaki 250 thing kind of excited me more than the Huskabana project for sure. And then that started the real international career of myself. So I spent uh six years won Kawasaki's first World Motocross Championship at that time, so that was uh a fantastic achievement from us with Stefan Evitts, and then later with uh Sebastian Tortelli. We won two more in the time that I was there as well. Uh Talon Vol and Eve D'Ameria, um yeah, Fred Bollet, this this era of motocross riders from Warner Kawasaki all come through us at that time. So Pit Bayer, guys whose name you'll you'll hear about a bit later, where we had the connection. Yeah. So uh we all worked together. Marnik Report's another another fantastic character. But uh yeah, did that. So I started as mechanic and then ended up being the crew chief in that organization as well. But then uh yeah, in the year 2000, it was a little bit like okay, Jan and Kawasaki were talking a little bit about maybe me taking over. Jan was getting older. They were trying to sort of understand what we can do and should we do something or not. But it was a bit difficult to learn the commercial side from Jan. Jan had a lot of old school sponsors who were his friends and uh it was working really good. And I was a little bit nervous about that side of it, you know. I mean, Kawasaki supported good, but you still needed backing. So it was a bit tricky to really, you know, especially being a Kiwi on the other side of the world, a little bit difficult to really understand. And then at that time, um Kawasaki running like a junior motocross program, so supporting teams around, and then uh uh Mike Church, who ran the church motocross team from England, and junior riders at that point come knocking on the door and needing a team manager and basic technical manager and team manager. So I took that challenge on to go manage that team based in England and uh did that for three years, and in that time, that's where things started to get interesting with the road racing point of view, is that uh another guy I'd met through the motocross side was uh Christophe Putignon, who's the LCR crew chief, was working many years in LCR, still there now is more of a technical boss, but he was the crew chief for Randy DePunier, Carl Prutchow. The he's the the big fluffy Belgium that's uh working there, was uh was a good friend, and uh I hadn't spoken to him for years. And then all of a sudden he just came out of the blue and phoned me and said, Hey, hey, haven't you ever thought about getting your ass over to road racing yet? And I was like, mate, it's been too long and uh I'm I'm busy and doing this stuff now and at quite a good level, so I'm not sure. He said, Well, come to an event and then uh we'll we'll see what happens. And at that stage he was working with Peter Clifford and the WCM team when they made their yeah, their yeah, their first uh how do you say MotoGP four-stroke project, if you like. So we were having I went there 2004 and Bruno was the first race. I sorry, there was uh 2003 in Bruno, and then uh I went there and and of course it was interesting, you know, it was something that uh another level, another idea of what to do, and then and of course the engineering side of that was was fascinating also, and the fact that they were doing their own project, there was a lot going on, there was a lot of good experienced people because it was coming from the Red Bull Yamaha days. They carried a lot of people over. So we got talking. Uh, there was an idea that they wanted me to become a crew chief. I was not really pumped on that idea. I had too much respect for the sport and and the people that were there to really think about really wanting to do that, you know. I was more keen to go in the back room a little bit and learn and understand, you know. And then uh so we kept talking a little bit, and then at the end of that year, they were not sure if they had the budget for 24 or not and stuff. So um I was sort of waiting a little bit and but thinking, okay, nothing's gonna really happen, I'll continue what I'm doing. And then all of a sudden Peter phoned at me out of the blue and said, Hey, we got the money. Uh, I've sent you a contract, have a look at it, and uh we go. I said, Yeah, yeah, but what's the job? He said, Oh no, no, just look at the contract and we'll have a look. Then we can talk. So um yeah, that was the crew chief job. So that was a bit of a shocker. It was like, oh God, what am I doing to do? It's a great story, yeah, yeah. So it was like uh holy shit, what am I gonna do now? You know, is it gonna be this or that? And then I thought about it and thought, well, if I can always come back here, it's probably a chance of a lifetime, so why don't I go and have a go at it, you know? But the problem was we're a bit late, so we never got any testing in or anything. So I turned up at the Jurez Grand Prix, was the first one that we joined, so it was a second round of 24 and straight into racing. So that was a shock. That was a big shock. So of course, I'm sure you'll yeah. Um there was some guys there who for sure were not so pumped to have a motocross guy running the the team on that side of the box. Uh the rider was Chris Burns. He also looked a bit nervous to be honest. But you know, we never had dealt with carbon brakes, uh, the amount of tires that Dunlop was throwing at it. It was like every every run was new tires trying to find the tire for the weekend. Uh the bike itself, I didn't know. Uh yeah, the data side of it. We weren't really doing much at motocross at that point. And uh so it was a big wake-up call, you know. It was like woof. And I remember I knew some of the boys in Odin's who were some friends through the motocross and and things like that, and they were working there. And somehow I managed to get through the first session, you know, and the thing that struck me was that the crew chief is the boss, like nothing happens unless he says so. So it was like the the feeling of of power was almost a little bit overwhelming, you know. And it was like nobody wanted to touch anything, nobody wanted to do anything until I said, Okay, this guy's that, do this. And it was like uh yeah, almost like a conductor of an orchestra. It was like, holy moly. And this part shocked me a little bit. I never I never expected it to be of of that level of intensity in in the session, and that only one guy is is running the show, you know. But that was a bit of a like, whoosh. But anyway, I got through that and we I went to see the guys at Olands and they were like, hey, Paul, how was it? Everything okay? I said, Wow, I've got chatter and I've got pumping. And they're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah this track we have that all the time, blah blah blah. I said, Okay, but what the hell is it? And they all nearly fell over laughing their heads off. Yeah, and it was the terminology, you know, and then they explained to me and I said, Okay, I'll try this and that, and they said, Okay, you'll be fine. But anyway, that was the start of the craziness in that first time, and then we managed to one of the deals that I made with uh with Peter Cumming was that I if I come, I need to learn. And the only way of learning is to do it. I don't want to open books, I don't want to understand through that, I want to understand by doing stuff, you know. So I explained to my writers at that time, hey, look, I'm gonna maybe do some bigger steps than normal, but I need to learn. And I I said, of course, please don't go and throw it down the road so that you can tell me I'm an idiot. If if it feels like you can't ride it, then bring it back in. I'm not here to kill you, I'm just here to learn, you know. But we don't have to be stupid. It's all and then they understood that. Uh sometimes I did some maneuvers that uh some of the guys that were around a little bit longer were a little bit gray before the bike left the left the box. But I think looking back in that time, there was a a big phenomenon in in road racing that was really different to motocross was the fact that you change one part of the bike, but then you change everything else around to make the bike the same. You know, and this part in motocross was more you learned more by trial and error. Okay, if I want to change the pivot, I change the pivot. If I want to change the swing up length, I change the swing-up length. If I want to change trial, I change the trail. But in the road racing, there was this fundamental thing that I felt that, you know, okay, if you do all that, but then you have to compensate, you know. So in the end, you're just basically putting the same bike out there, geometry-wise, but playing around with some numbers, you know. And this part was I said, I'll never ever learn anything by doing this. This is going to be a disaster. So I went, I guess, the old style of motocross and just said, okay, let's do let's see what trial does. Let's see what uh steering angle does. Let's go open, let's go closed. Uh, what happens when I just do a pivot? So I did all this type of thing. Uh, I learnt a lot, absolutely crazy amount of stuff. Had really good relationships in the team. We started scoring points, we got results that uh no one ever expected. Peter was a fantastic boss. He was uh very straight, very honest. Um, and to be honest, maybe too honest for the world of of motorsport at that time because you you know Peter always wanted to make sure that he had the money in the pocket before he said yes. You know, in the motorsport, there was some of the team owners at that time were more like yes, yes, yes, and then they got the bikes or whatever, and then they didn't pay for them. So Peter was uh the good thing was that he was the at least what he said he did, he did. But of course, being that honest, he didn't survive that long as being a team manager without the backing of somebody like Red Bull. So after a couple years, that project sort of fell through. He couldn't find the backing. There was talk with Blatter, a check company, and things like that, you know, the the V6 project and all that stuff. He really tried hard to keep something going, but in the end it was impossible. I thought, okay, maybe the MotoGP time is over and we'll go and do something else. But then um at that time, Olens come knocking. So Max Larsen was the head of racing. We knew each other a little bit, and uh he came along me one day and basically said, Hey, what have you got? Anything planned already for next year? I said, No, at the moment we're looking like we're not gonna go racing. He said, Ah, no problem, you come work with me then. So I ended up working at Olin's end. So back with some spanners in the hands and uh worked for Olands for 10 years. So that was uh another fantastic company. Um my task at that time was to work with Aprilia. Aprillia had sort of bought the suspension in-house, so they did a lot of a lot of yeah, they had some great technicians working there, but they controlled everything. They bought just the product from OLANS and they did all the fine-tuning, the development of their own settings and things like that, but they felt that they'd gone away a little bit from KTM. Uh sorry, KTM, from um Olin's, and they needed uh some partnership back again, you know. So they I got into that and I ended up working at which where I first met G G. Gigi was the the boss of Pretty Erasing at that time. Yeah. So I worked in the 1250s. GG Delanium? Yeah, Gigi Delaney, yep, exactly. Yeah, I understood straight away that he was uh a different character. Uh the racing blood and the the will to win was phenomenal from that guy. He pushed like hell. So I'm not surprised that he's he is doing what he's doing now. Uh he had a good way of getting the best out of people, you know, um, even letting you explore maybe a little bit more, even if it wasn't really wanted, if you know what I mean. You know, if you went a little bit over the range and then kind of said sorry afterwards, but they learned something, he was super pumped about this type of uh openness and pushing the limits a little bit. But uh anyway, I I worked there for uh four years, I think, with them. And then uh when Oland switched to uh when Honda switched to Olin's in the MotoGP class, I think 2009, if I remember right, halfway through that. Then uh then Matt's and uh and Honda wanted me to go work in the Rhapsod box. So that was back into the MotoGP world again. So um to be at that time I was not that keen to go. I was really enjoying the Aprilia, enjoying working with the kids. Uh there you could really help people, you know. You'd I was working for six riders, and so you're busy like oh, and you're jumping from box to box, but you you were changing your not your character, but you're changing what they needed. You know you go to one box, maybe a crew chief needed a friend, needed somebody that he could lean on and ask questions about what do you think about the trail, what do you think about the tires? Just you really become part of that team member. Some riders needed extra support, some crew chief didn't want you to talk to the rider because then it was taking the power away from him. So you had to fit into all these different solutions, but it was a super way of I learned again, learning a lot and learning to deal with people, you know, everyone was different nationalities, uh different languages. But uh I had a really good rapport, I really enjoyed that class. So when they said, okay, we're gonna go work for Honda and on the Danny Pedrosa side, it was a bit of a shock. And also to the fact that at that time that was not the nice and happy team of the paddock. You know, there was always this stigma around that they were assholes, if you like. You know, they were very cold, they kept it very clinical, it wasn't really the the place that you really wanted to. I mean, Honda was Honda, don't get me wrong. But that side of the garage was a little bit like, whoa, this looks like hard work, you know, it's very stale, it's not uh nobody's having fun, and uh and I'm the complete opposite. If I'm not laughing and joking around, then it's it's not who I am. So it's very difficult to spend that amount of time in a box when you've got to be that serious. But anyway, I didn't have much say in the end. It was uh it was really a big request from Matt's, but when I got in there, it completely was the opposite. I think it was part of the way that they got results, you know, it was keep the outside world out. And if you're a team, you're a team, and then put up this big shelter around you, you know. So uh turned out that it we worked really, really well together. Uh and uh I spent five years there, I think. Longer. Yeah, five yeah, around five years there. So fighting for the titles, the time that Casey came in the box while I was there, also with uh Mark coming up. So seeing those characters, seeing how they operated, uh was also a uh really, really interesting time, you know. And of course, working with Honda, yeah, just to see the power that they had to do things and uh create what they created, also the mess they could make because it was always pushing the envelope, uh always new bikes, new bikes, new bikes, never, never thinking about just tickling what they had. It had to be a new concept, it had to be a new idea. So it was it was great, you know. We did the 800 back to the thousand era of development and all that stuff being part of all that was really quite interesting to to be to be part of, and also the fact that Honda really opened up a little bit and and let us be more than just the Owens company on the outside, you know. You could really talk to engineers about stuff, and uh it was a really open relationship. So another another great experience to be honest. And then uh Wow. Yeah, yeah, and then the then then the the thing come where everything changed again is uh I remember the name Pit Bayer. So we had worked together in the motocross world. We had his best results of the year. We got a second and third in the world with Pitt. Um he phoned me out of again, not speaking for probably 10 years. I knew KTM were in the paddock, of course, with their motor three project because that had all happened. Um, but yeah, I was not really thinking much about all that, and I was too busy doing what I was doing. And then all of a sudden Pitt phoned out of the blue and said, Hey, I got some ideas. Uh what's the chance that we can have a chat about you coming to work for KTM? I said, What? Work for Katie for what? I uh booked, uh I don't really think I'm happy here. Anyway, we got talking again. Um yeah, I I mean the guy's character is is phenomenal, you know. He's uh a world-class athlete and one guy who maybe didn't have the talent but knew how to work hard. And uh it was incredible motivation to be with this guy racing, you know. It was the the heart uh he wore his heart on his sleeve and the throttle was wide open, and uh the the will of trying and uh pushing was incredible. When speaking to this guy, you know, I was there also when he so I was in the race watching that, that was not so far across from all the mechanics area, so that was horrific. But then you saw, you know, he how he responded to that, you know, and just got on with his life and uh and to this day he's he's incredible motivation for anybody who's working in that company, you know, because the guy's just on it, you know, traveling around the world every weekend he's away somewhere doing some racing series in in a chair. I mean, when you travel a lot, you realize how bad that is, and then if you've got to deal with it like that, then it adds uh another yeah, yeah, terrible level of complication on top of everything. But he never never stops uh smiling and pushing us all anyway. More about Pitt. But yeah, so we ended up um deciding that okay, let's let's go for it. Uh there was talk of the Motor GB project at that time, and but the main the what they wanted me to do the first year, which is 15, is to get the Motor 3 thing running a bit differently, get that up and running in a bit of a level where customers were happy, riders were happy, and uh and then we see what we do after that was the the main focus of 15. So that was again. I mean, I wasn't so keen. My wife was the one who maybe made the final push where she said, you know, if you want to do one more challenge in your life, this will probably be it, no? Or do you want to just stay at Olin's and keep doing what you're doing? But uh maybe this would be something that you would enjoy. And it was I think the most appealing part was having the bike in your hands again, the whole bike, you know. This was the part because it was track support, was the official job title. And uh, so yeah, that was uh another great experience. It was I worked mainly with the Red Bull KTM team at that time, so Aki Ayo's team. Brad Binder and Miguel Olivera were the riders at that time. And then uh yeah, we had three guys like me pushing around the whole paddock and and trying to get the bike sorted, and it was uh uh yeah, nice again to as I said to have the whole bike and be part of a factory where you would be in the factory, you know, you're in the development side of it, you start to meet the people, learn what they're doing, do you talk in chassis stiffness, uh geometry, triple clamps, uh gear box. Yeah, everything was in your hands again, you know. So this was a really nice time. And at the same time, they managed to steal uh Mike Leitner, who was the crew chief of Danny. So we'd already spent uh five years working together, and uh he came and his job was to start them get the Moto GP team up and running. So they had the engineering staff was already in in KTM, and then uh he was the guy then put in charge to make a team. So he spent 15 getting the team up and running, and then uh of course the idea was that in 16 I would go and work in the MotoGP project. It was never decided at the crew chief job again. That was always not really talked about, but of course, end of the year they said, okay, we're gonna do it, but you're gonna be the crew chief. I was like, okay, here we go again. Then uh so yeah, it's again it's not like I told you, it was not wasn't the biggest ambition to be that man, you know. It was just to be part of the of the development, part of the process, you know. And I think looking back now, it's it's still a fantastic achievement, and maybe the last manufacturer who can really do it was to come from nothing and then be in the Motor JP and to build a bike at this level in this day and age is uh it's been a fantastic uh journey, you know, and you're still learning every day. It's an incredible achievement, something that I'm super, super proud of myself. But also for KTM and all the people that's working in the team, there's been uh some fantastic moments we've had. But yeah, that's where we that's where we've got to up to date pretty much. So being there. No, no, keep going, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's that's such a great story because as I listen to you, I see parallels of other people I know that have sort of started out as builders, engineers, operators, and then had to go learn new skills around leadership and the business and all these things that come with being a leader, because you know, I mean my my background is technology and I have a lot of great engineers and developers and stuff. And but does it mean they can go and run a team and get things going? And so it sounds like you've done this kind of left to right across all those things. And you know, what's really interesting to me, Porter, since you're talking, because I definitely want to talk about MotoGP is what is it about Selfland? What is it about Selfland, man? That like uh, you know, I know you're part of the Otaga motorcycle club and you come from Way Self, you know, Bel Cluff is Way Self, but whether it's like, you know, Jenny Holm or Cormac Buchanan, even guys like George uh Begg, yourself. Um, what is it about that part of New Zealand? Um, obvious obviously Bert Monroe, like what is it about New Zealand, that part of New Zealand that produces frickin' petrol heads like you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a it's a really good question. Um I mean, there's such a love for motorsport down there. You know what I mean? It's uh like uh yeah, like every dealership that I went to in the news had somebody who was a top class racer, you know, like uh we had uh Mike McCutcheon, you know, one of them, and I was working at uh what I was sponsored a little bit by the dealership that he was working in when I was racing motocross, and then you had this production 250 champion in New Zealand working on his own stuff and tinkering away, and you could sit beside him and do your bike, and he was telling you all sorts of stuff about what's going on. And then uh later worked in um uh Trevor King took over the McCutcheon motorcycles, and he was a top three New Zealand motocross rider. So there was another one there, and then you had the the Veachers, you know, McIver and Veach, who's got a long history in racing, and uh okay, not at the New Zealand championship level, his son in the end was, but also a top top rider, don't get me wrong, you know. But the all this field of riding, there was just such a such a big happening and such a I don't know, a desire to go racing down that way. I don't know what's in the blood or what's in the water they got down there, but um it was a it was a a real thing, you know. And it was when I f I fell in love with motorcycles, I think when I was four years old. I remember not going to bed when Mum and Dad wanted and some mini bike program come on, you know, the little lawnmower pull start engines that you um yep, with the fat whales on the beach, and I saw this and I went crazy. I thought, okay, that's it. And I begged and nagged and jumped up and down until I got one of those, you know, and I and that's where the story started, and and it's all these years later you still I still have that passion, you know. You still it's why, you know, it to be able to make your job out of your passion is a is an absolute fantastic thing. It's not work, you know. It's uh it's you know, many people ask also like with my wife and my kids, and you know, I I love when I turn into the street at home and go see my family and I can be a dad and a and a husband. But I also love when I roll out of it and go to to go racing, you know, and it's uh it's a fantastic uh but yeah, what it is in Southland, I don't know if maybe there's not that much more to do. I think I mean we're lucky we have some tracks down there. We have the land, you know, with the there was a great environment of farmers who let us build tracks, you know, all the time. Every junior parent was involved. It was just uh yeah, it was just something we did, I guess. Yeah, but it is uh it is a crazy thing when you mention all the names and uh and looking back, you didn't think about that then, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It was just No, you didn't, right? No, not yeah, then I suppose you well, I suppose you've also got like um obviously guys like uh John Britton, who's a bit further north than you, but um, you know, and then some of the parks, um I think it was at Terratonga Park. There's a real famous racing venue down there. And I mean it's it's real cool. And and so so you've made this transition from being a guy that got his apprenticeship working on motorcycles. There's not many people that actually know how to work on carbureted engines these days. It's pretty funny when I talk to mechanics. Um, but um um your story is actually a little bit similar to Simon Crayfast, because you know he was um an apprentice mechanic. He's from Auckland, though, you know. I know you guys love Orkanders. But then um he worked at Olin's for a while as well after he finished racing and did a bunch of things. The suspension whispering side of the sport is something I definitely want to get into because it's I'm uh it's amazing, it's amazing what you learn from suspension. But I'm curious, like many fans hear the term crew chief, and um I don't think they really know what the role entails. I think you described it a little bit, but it sounds like you're trying to balance engineering. engineering, strategy, and sometimes even kind of being a psychologist for the writer, yeah? Like how do you describe it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's uh it's I mean it's a complex job and you can make it as complex or as simple as you want. I mean what's the big thing in there being the crew chief at the moment is that there always needs to be one guy in the box. There needs to be a leader, you know? There needs to be somebody who orchestrates what's going on. Now with the teams being as big as we are we we go around the world with 50 people. So there's you know so there's a lot of people in the in the event. There's a lot of backroom staff a lot of fantastic minds and engineers behind you. But uh so they I mean the key now I think with being it's changed a lot you know so you don't have to be the how do you say the one who knows it all. You know what I mean? And I think to be successful in in Grand Prix mechanic um in well crew chief in now is to understand that. It's to understand that you know you there's at every point inside that garage there's somebody better at doing one thing than you. So you'd be stupid not to take that advice and listen to it. You know and uh I really love that I uh give the freedom in my team of all the boys that come on what's your idea put it on the table show me what you got you know but then you've got to remember you've got 20 people so the rider stops he has uh a problem and then you got 20 people from electronics to the suspension to pure data to the chassis guys to performance engineering from the riding point of view who all want to help but you can't change everything so otherwise you're gonna get completely lost. So then that's the job of the crew team now to take that information somehow and understand really what the rider needs what is the situation of the track conditions. Do we have the right tire on the bike to have that type of uh do we work on strategies with the wrong set of tires? Are we looking for grip when we have a track where every time you go out the tire degrees so much that you you're not gonna get the right information. So it's understanding the principles of what a motorcycle is and then understanding the situation around it and what your rider really needs. You know some days you you look at the rider and he's and you know every time the rider stops there's 10 guys in front of him with clipboards wanting the information what's going on what's that and you I just look him in the eyes and say you know what you need just 10 more laps buddy okay guys go away we put the yeah guys let's get back out and let them do some riding because it's it's this it's too too much you know they're not ready to give you the input and you get lost if you start to move from that point onwards always you know so it's a it's it's I wouldn't say it's complicated and I'm really trying to keep it very simple. But I really have a lot of respect for all the people in my team and as I said I think you need to let them shine and give them the responsibility and they all make you look better in the end. But you still have to make those calls and those right decisions at the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I saw all those orange shirts when I was at um in Austin and you and I are going to try try to catch up we didn't make it and you had busier things to worry about like running your team but we we ended up staying in the same hotel so I saw all your orange shirts running around. It's amazing there's 50 of you at least I suppose like for a guy that um has seen the you know the progression from having a spanner and uh some good suspension and knowing a bit or two about motorcycles to now you've got software people running around with million amounts of machine learned um data um that you're running through these AI prompts and things you've got all this data not only if you you're a mechanic but it sounds as though you've got to have folks on your team that are software savvy and then you've got to figure out what what do you what do you prioritize to work on? You can't do it all. There's another person involved right and that's the writer I listen to Peter Baum quite a bit and I quite like Peter Bomm's um where he talks about data. And like I'm curious like I hear that some writers um are are just amazing. They can just translate in a way that engineers understand and go and like what's what's what where does the writer come in for you? Because you've got pure talent we're all talented obviously but what's the right how you know what's the difference between a really good feedback and not good feedback in terms of winning a championship?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I mean uh it's a really good question. I think I mean you know the whole world's getting much more technical so everyone's thinking that we need all these special programs and all the stuff and of course it helps everything you know but you know motorcycles have been around a long time and they're a horrible thing you know they just want to go straight. You know we've got telescopic forks on the bike since the 50s and nobody can make anything better. You know for some reason a rider needs friction and he needs a reducing trail to feel like he should go around the corner. Physics it it it's completely the worst thing you could ever do but it's something that makes motorcycles work. So there's so much black magic in a motorcycle you don't believe and you're if you try to engineer it or if you try to understand it all completely then you get lost in all the little details. And I think part of my makeup is and maybe what is I would say a strong point is that coming from the motocross world you had to listen to the rider. We didn't have data we didn't have all that stuff back in the day but you listened to the rider. You understood what you tried to be asked the right question get the right information to make educated guess on changing the bike and also what that did is made you not be scared to change the bike. Okay so now you have this new era where I would say possibly in the paddock I'm the last old school guy who's come from the background we have most guys who are crew chiefs now have come through universities uh have been a data or an electronic engineer and then climb the ladder from that point of view. To really go from the mechanical side to that now I it's probably I don't think anyone would think about it anymore, you know, because everyone believes you need this and stuff. But like I say there's so many of those good people we can have anyway that you still need in some ways it's quite nice to be think a little bit simple, you know? And uh the rider input is for me number one. The data happens because of the result of what the rider and the bike are doing. That's not that's not the how do you say the gold that's to try to analyze it it's data and understand what the rider's point of view through the data is instead of looking at the data and saying the rider is wrong it's got to be like this. It's more about for me trying to see what the rider's meaning through why why he does that why he why he's stopping earlier. Why don't you have the the feeling to release the brakes at that point why is it this why is it that is it the riding is it the line is it the do we need to change something I mean you get the very very good riders and you can put every any spring rate on the front you want and I guarantee you they'll put that bike in the mid-corner position so we're talking when you release the brake and when you don't touch the throttle and the position of that bloody motorcycle will be one or two millimeters out. And it didn't matter what front spring or what rear spring you do because that they feel that bike needs that position to go around the corner. So you get sometimes if you just go by numbers you're like wow the guy at the mid corner position is perfect. Why do we have to touch that? Why is he complaining? Why is he complaining? Because he has to do something on that bike that he doesn't want to do to put the bike in that position.
SPEAKER_00:So this is the key that's the difference. Well that's the difference right between like an old fat man like me riding a club racing and track days and a guy like that.
SPEAKER_01:No no but it's you know what I mean this is the I mean it's incredible the the the the more skilled the rider the faster they are they have this ability you know so then you for me sometimes and especially in the session we have one hour or you have a 45 minute session that's three runs maximum four runs that's not a lot of time on the track. So for me the most important thing is to get the boy get the rider on the bike and then get the data. So we have the more data we have the more that we can try to understand things. So many times if a rider comes in and says Paul I feel the front diving too quick I won't look at the data. I'll just put a stiff and spring let's go okay let's go back out there we get the how is that oh yeah that was better. No actually it was worse. All right let's go the other way because also the rider can be wrong you know but by putting him on the track and putting him he's you're getting him to be able to learn also from the feeling instead of just going straight to the down and say no no no you're wrong I'm gonna put this in but then you start to lose the trust and the guy say fuck my croochie doesn't listen to me. So that becomes the mental side of it. So you have to play the game you have to understand and know when you should do these things and when you shouldn't do these things. But for me the most important is the I always say the information's on the track. You can sit in the box for five minutes longer than everyone else you're gonna learn nothing by that. So it's better you get a feeling of what he's got I mean I always have a plan before every session. Okay if the guy comes in and says I'm running wide okay or I need more turning okay my suspension guy we've got three different shops already set up with different topouts uh different things my strategy guy okay what do we got on the switches you know we can change three switches on engine brake uh rider talk demand uh and uh wheelie control and all these things so what do we got available for the rider so when he's out there if he fails this we got this okay hit the switch buddy then we've got that information coming back in so it's all about making a plan that we get as max amount of that time as we can to try to go forward for the next part and then on top of that you have the mighty Michelin um point that comes into it. So Michelin is a chemical tire so it's the easiest way that I can explain it. So a chemical tire from Michelin's point of view is that Michelin needs Michelin rubber on the track so that it makes a chemical reaction that starts to work. Example a bridge stone or a paralyre works where it works on the roughness of the stone or the surface and the heat and everything else. Michelin don't work like that. Michelin works in this way of uh as I say a chemical tire so when you go to a green track the amount of grip that you have is disaster because it's just every track you go to at the beginning of the weekend is green as we call it which means no rubber down and then it's uh the first session is just struggling. So if you try to test too much in the first session or understand you get lost very very quickly.
SPEAKER_00:It's better that you just I never knew that wow so literally rubber on the track.
SPEAKER_01:Yes you need rubber on the track. And then the other problem we have is that when there's two different rubber so example you have a weekend where we go we are the first on the the motor three and motor two go on the track okay they don't lay a lot of rubber we go down and put our rubber down then we're back on the track. So every time we go down the track is getting more rubber which makes it better. We need we lose some grip every time or the grip changes and then example warm up. Warm-up is the only time of the weekend where we've done the sprint race and then we do the next session is our rubber on the track again. It's the best grip of the weekend it's also cooler but then you've changed the bike maybe from the sprint the rider goes out then goes wow you fixed everything it's fantastic and then you go to the race and you go he goes holy shit what happened I have no grip again you know so it's really tricky to understand all these parts and you this is experience that lets you understand what you should do and what you should not do again in these times so you don't get lost because for me the key in motor at the moment is don't get lost. You know you see many guys who just go around in a circle all weekend you know they start at one point and by the time they come on Sunday they're back there. But the guy you've just wasted so much time and every time the guy's out on track he's riding a different motorcycle you know there is also these things in a motorcycle that is the character of the bike. This is what it is you you know you ride a a Harley Davidson or you ride a Japanese bike or you ride a European bike it's got this character it's got this feel you can't change a character with a setup. Doesn't matter what anyone thinks there's no way the character is the character but you have to find and use the character as the strong point of the bike. So these are the parts that we need to make sure we get 100% correct in a weekend. And this part we have to make sure that we don't go too far away of or make it as worse. You know what I mean? You try to find a balance but you have to find the strong point of that character. And also I always try to teach my riders to don't talk to me about character in the weekend because there's nothing in this truck and there's nothing in this garage that's going to be able to fix it. This is this bike it is what it is this character so don't talk to me. If it's a setup or something like that, you as a rider need to understand that oh Paul can help me with this I need uh this different I need this different position I need somehow to turn a little bit more or the bike's a bit heavy and change your direction or is there any way to find some more grip or some more pitching so I can rotate a little bit faster so I can finish the corner a bit quicker. This stuff we can work on but the you but the pure character of the motorcycle you can't this is I mean this stuff is real is so gold.
SPEAKER_00:It's gold because I'm a total geek when it comes to riding and obviously I'm just track day club racer guy but one of the things that strikes me listening to you talk especially with your background is you must have seen and I want to talk about young writers because I've had um Red Bull Rookies Cup riders on the on the podcast. I've had up and coming champions like Christian Daniel who's an American in the Rebel Rookies Cup. He's the first American actually to podium in the Rebel Rookies Cup which is yeah yeah um uh uh Ken Z Matsuhura who's uh too young for Rookie's Cup but he's probably gonna get in next year. There's a few Americans coming through Kayla Yakov who's actually um a young lady um who doesn't like being called that because she races of all the guys in Moto America and she's podium in um in the super sport class which is cool. Okay but what I notice about all these kids is um they have this level of maturity that I mean it's it's it's like you're talking to an adult and um these kids that you see coming through their ability to articulate things um like I'm sure you've noticed a difference you know 20 years ago or maybe even earlier you know a lot of these maybe these writers weren't as focused on fitness they weren't as focused on on data they just kind of went out there and rode you know of course I've got to talk about Pedro Costa like I know I know all of these I know all of the writers you work with are the top percent of a percent in the world. So it's not like you have a talent problem. This feedback cycle you're not coaching writers on how to hit their apex or you know how to like you know you're not doing any of that shit. So with so how much are you allowed to talk about Pedro as a as a um as a writer you're working with and and and what's it like working with someone like that?
SPEAKER_01:And you've also got Danny Prejoza sitting hanging around giving cool feedback too right so yeah exactly what's it tell me a bit about like oh yeah man he yeah he got top 10 week before last I was like yeah exactly I mean it's uh the world's fastest test writer at the moment but uh yeah it's um it's crazy I mean you can get goosebumps thinking about it and uh when you get the chance to work with this rare talent this uh it's it's I mean it's phenomenal what these guys can do and uh like you say it's been a long time since I worked with a young kid you know like um Pedro I've got a daughter the same age for example and uh so when they said okay you're gonna work with Pedro I was like what the hell what's that you know but like you said this the the thing that stands out is this uh maturity they have you know it's it's incredible he's so mature for his age and you know of course he hasn't spent a lot of time at school and he hasn't done all the studying but his world knowledge or his way of acting and understanding I mean he's told me also many times he he's born in the wrong time he should have been a 90s kid you know he should have been at 21 in the 90s he said that era suits him much so much more you know he's a very very straight man unbelievably straight uh whatever comes in his mouth will come out of his mouth this is also super clear and he gets him in trouble sometimes but honestly what what you see on TV and in the interviews or whatever that's just Pedro Acosta. He's like that in the box from morning to night and it is uh and I know some people think it's uh him trying to show off or something but it's not it's not about showing off it's just about who he is as a guy you know and then you start thinking about what the talent you have. I mean I as you said there was the old days when you know I was talking about Pitt Pitt was uh of course he had talent but he was a bloody hard worker and then I worked also with Stefan Evitts who was completely the opposite he was so much talent that it was ridiculous and he kind of worked don't get me wrong he was not unfit but he was not putting in the effort of the other guys and then something changed and then Effen decided to train hard he put in the effort that the other guys are putting in and then all of a sudden they become unbeatable. You know and then these other guys are just like and their chance has gone to try to do something more to be better than those guys. So this mentality is in the sport now you know and that's why I think you find the cream of the cream inside this motor GP class now. Most of them have all been at least one time world champion. They've all at least fought for a world champion and lost by a couple of points you know and uh you s honestly all of them with without a doubt are fantastic. And anyone on their day with the right luck and the right machine could probably even win. You know there's that much talent on the grid. But then you get these two ones and I mean the Pedro Acosta thing the shock for me was the biggest shock that I that I've had with him is just his ability to take in information and then turn it around and put it on the track. If you talked about like the electronics you talk about the ride height devices I mean most guys as they come as a rookie you put them on the Moto TV bike and they look at all the buttons and the levers and they go holy shit I'm not gonna touch any of that all day. I'm gonna worry about that in in Sipang you know I just need to ride the bike because they only get one day in Valencia Pedro went out there and pushed every button within eight laps he started using the ride height device from the first flying lap he started and you're just like and he was just so in in entrance looking at this thing okay what's this do? Okay what can I do with that? This this but it all went in and he just went out and he just he just did it and I was just like holy shit you know and then he was like okay so what happens if I need more inch brake what does more inch brake do what uh and then we said okay but we can do it also on different lean angles uh the last part of the corner entering the apex we can make any level at any different angle you want so we so we start to play and he just took it and he was like oh oh I remember this this time one track I would maybe have needed that would have been a fantastic tool. So he's fully into all the technology like you don't believe and the way he can take all that information in plus also the writing tips you know I've got a fantastic guy next to me we call it the old school data guy you know but he's not really that he's a performance engineer I'd call him and he sits between me and my strategy guy and his job is just to be the policeman. So he's the policeman for the riders riding he's the policeman for the electronics if he sees some strategy hey why have I got so much engine why you've got engine break here it looks like it's pushing Binder's using this what level why are we here? Oh I see bloody chatter there why haven't you done anything about that so he's he's a really good guy to and I like I say I call him the policeman but he's giving tips all the time about riding and uh it's nice because we're in the we have three guys on a bench basically on a desk. Uh he sits in the middle and then Pedro always comes and sits whatever side between us and then the videos are on we're rewatching the videos we're looking at the data and it just becomes a a massive team meeting but it it's constant all day long and into the night you know and it's uh but this is this guy he's pushing everyone so hard and the thing is he works so hard. So he's this yeah yeah fantastic talent that works hard and just pushes people and you know I always have a saying when I was working with guys you know if you give me a hundred percent I'll give you one twenty but if you give me ninety I'll give you sixty because I'm only here to get the most out of everything and I'm not gonna travel around the world and leave my family behind for just somebody who's not really interested. You know but then you've got the problem with him where he gives 120 already and then I'm like oh I don't think I can even meet you know what I mean? It's uh but uh yeah yeah and uh yeah that's a great that's a great nugget man that that's a great leadership nugget right there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but you know it's it's uh it's it's something that you know it it's I don't know he he just extracts everything out of you you know you wouldn't believe how much time at home you're just thinking about the bloody things and sometimes something will pop in your mind and then all of a sudden you're on the phone to him and then you yeah yeah yeah let's do it like that and boom and it's just uh constantly and he's the other way around and uh we have a lot a lot of contact you know and stuff yeah he's just pushing us all to be better you know and the frustrations at the beginning of the year uh maybe some people say nasty comments but that's that's who he is you know he got promised to have a world championship winning bike and he rode the same bike as he did last year at the beginning of the year so he was angry he was angry at the country he was angry at the world um it nobody foresaw the situation and trust me KTM didn't do it deliberately but uh for Pedro it was really really hard to take you know and uh I think for him it felt like maybe he'd been lied to you know and uh it wasn't the case of course but you know it was uh to get him back on the rails there and to understand that uh this year is lost and we still have to get something out of it I think was the better way to to look at it and try to do it from there.
SPEAKER_00:I don't believe anything I read on the internet anyway because there's so much bullshit although you won't bring up rumors and stuff. Obviously he's um what some would call an alien right in the 1% of the 1% of the best riders he's like the 1% of that and and uh I you can I can see that and and and the pressure on on the bike off the bike um one of the one of the things I'm curious about is you know I've I sponsored uh call Matt Buchanan for one of his rounds you know he's a Kiwi in Moto 3 as you know and I know and some of these kids I meet some of these kids um you know when I'm looking at Moto 3 and Moto 2 Moto 2 is probably closest to world superbike maybe in some levels in terms of just the the the the the the you know the style of the bike the weight of it and stuff but when you look at Moto 3 there's a lot of like okay you know getting the um slipstream is important all these things are important but the the bigger the bike gets physical you know being physical being fit being mentally tough of course there's a lot of differences I notice that some kids are they seem a little big for a Moto three bike but then they get to Moto 2 and they've stopped growing and they're but they're strong and and is it is it is it always a sure thing that a Moto 3 world champion is going to be a Moto GP champion and what are the outliers you know riders that come through and surprise you why why do they surprise you? Let's say they they do nothing in Moto 3 maybe a little bit more in Moto 2 but then come to Moto GP and kick ass like do you have any insight into what the differences are there?
SPEAKER_01:I would say like I think what what you talk about now like the kids being bigger and everything I think this is has a lot to do with the the age rule now you know before you had 14 year old kids racing the world championship which was maybe a little bit crazy. So you had these small kids now now you've got 18 year olds so of course they're bigger and more mature and that's that's a difference that we feel in the paddock also. But um yeah the question I think put it this way you've got an example you got a child who goes to school but before he goes to school he's got parents who are pushing the kid so the kid can already read when he goes to school he can already count uh do calculations or whatever he's fully advanced and they they sell him off as being a uh super talent you know and I think but then after a year or two everyone catches up because the normal system then just comes back in place you know then if somebody is really good and really talented naturally they will start to shine and the other person will will plateau. And I think what happens now with some of these cups in some of the countries and around the world you you you get these guys who have had a more chance they've had a better upbringing into the sport they've been pushed harder they've had the better machinery they've had uh more chances and then you get the ones sometimes who haven't had that so they take longer to get to that plateau you know so it is really hard as you said to to know when you're taking on these kids can they really do it or not you know and uh I would say there's to go Moto GP now there's a certain level of intelligence that perhaps the writer needs as well you know he needs to understand all these things about tire management about working with the electronics working with the team working with uh uh different nationalities because you can't just have your little family friend team as you go through the lab you know so it's really important that uh the kid keeps growing he keeps uh learning things and and becoming broader in his mind and stuff like that so it's um I think some people generally suit bigger bikes also they suit a bike that slides speaking with Pedro he much more preferred Motor 3 than motor two motor three said because it's still a it is a prototype it's uh has this stiff racing feel to it it feels like a a race bike plus there was more things that you could change on that bike than you could in the the motor two motor two was quite frustrating for him he said it was a class that he believes maximally you need to spend maximum two years there. Otherwise you become stale because there's only one way to ride that bike fast. And when you figure that out then you just have to do repeat repeat repeat but you can't push yourself to learn other things when you're riding it's quite he said it's quite frustrating and it feels more like a production class like you said about super sport. The the you know the chassis weak it's soft it's uh not giving that input that a racing bike so the first thing he come off when he came off the MotoGP bike when he came in he he turned you know with the smile on his face like anything he just said wow it's a racing bike again you know this this input that they have the stiffness they and uh so it's it's a tricky question you know but I really believe it's a lot of that stuff you know how how parents push and and maybe have the money to pay for better training and stuff like that. So some of that natur what we believe is natural talent turns out to be not so natural talent. It's just being hard work at that early age and maybe given the right opportunities. So then it fades away when they hit the motor too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah well you know thank you for giving giving us some insight there because I think there's some so there's so many things that you probably just as part of your job you just maybe I'm not saying you take it for granted but there's just so much stuff inside your head that I know I'm I'm learning a lot. You know as we sort of close out because I know you don't have a lot of time what I want to ask you a bit about the US situation. American racing I don't know how I don't know how close you are to it but um there was a time when American races were world class winning world championships GP level world superbike level in the US um now uh a company called Kramer uh you're probably familiar with they've built um they've built they've they've built these race prototypes and they're investing in um young races in the US with the Moto America Junior Cup and you know Wayne Rainey and others are investing in the talent here and and and you talked about your dirt bike background and motocross background a lot of the kids from that era Wayne Rainey's era came up through flat track and they just seem to have this immediate ability to to ride a motorcycle you know um and I'm curious how closely do you to the US scene and Moto America scene and what do you think has happened because I feel like American America's kind of dropped off the planet when it comes to like producing world class riders.
SPEAKER_01:I mean we have you know we have we have a few um but we don't have that many at your level is do you have any insight as to what into what's going on there or I mean I would I would look at it example even when the Australians or the Kiwis come over you know they don't travel to the other side of the world just to do okay they go over there because they know maybe their parents have sold the house, they've remortgaged whatever they've put every last cent into it. So it's their only chance of their dream. I would say that type of guy like the Americans in the early days uh example with the Kiwis and the Aussies they went over there for one thing and one thing only they weren't going to get distracted and go spend a day on the beach or whatever. They went there to get the job done. They didn't want to live in Europe or they didn't want to they wanted to be able to do that sport they love in their own country and be called a world champion but they couldn't. So they went there with that target you know and I think with the US thing uh it's just too easy there. They can earn enough money to live well they don't have this ambition what is the world in America now you know you know they they think the world is there many times you know when you go into a a bar or you talk about it they don't really what's happening outside of America is not important enough anymore you know but in those days to be called a world champion really really meant something. And to do that you had to go across the other side of the world and and fight uh have different go through different languages uh eat different foods uh the border controls in those days was crazy you'd spend two or three hours just parked up in queues trying to get through the borders and stuff it was tough it was super super hard but these guys really wanted to be a world champion and I think you still have it like hopefully Cormac and all those guys have that same thing you know and it was I guess it was the same even as the mechanics you know we went there because we really really wanted to go and be in the world championship motorcycle racing. So you gave everything you know and if you're of course if you sit in Europe and you're an Englishman and you're like to be honest that sounds like a hard work how many hours a day? Oh no no I would sooner be here and uh you know and it and also become too easy you know because it wasn't such a big thing because it was easy enough to do. But I think this is for me is what's happened a lot in America is just everything's so professional there. You know any sport they make instantly professional they sell it as this is the best of the world and they get the money and they get the sport and I at least I don't mean it in any disrespect to any of the writers or anything like that. But it's it is I see it like that, you know and uh there's no need to be a world champion there anymore. There's no need to go across the world and and fight and and make it difficult for yourself when you can just live at home easy.
SPEAKER_00:And we're talking about you know the the world the world series of baseball only Americans play it but they call themselves the world champions man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah exactly exactly I mean it's it's yeah it's sad we're laughing but it is quite sad also.
SPEAKER_00:But uh yeah there's a little bit of a frustration it's interesting yeah no man no big candidate eh because you know I spend a lot of time um at the track I do about 25 days a year at Vitrack and I meet a lot of racers from all classes and spend time with them I can tell you man they're all ambitious eh but it is expensive you know and guys like Christian Daniels his family moved to Spain Kenza spends half a year in Spain he's only 14 years old he just won the Moto America um mini mini champ um and but um it it is and Cormac I can tell you for sure we stay in touch a lot I told Cormac that when he gets his first podium I'm gonna buy him a coffee machine because he loves espresso it's his thing so I said when he when he gets his first podium I'm gonna buy him like a proper espresso machine he's super super ambitious and you know his parents are also wonderful people and no no no they're pushing really hard they're pushing really hard oh yeah man they are and so I want to close on Kiwi stuff because even though it might not sound like a Kiwi anymore my mates back home tell me I sound American um you know I've been away for 25 years like you a long time man. Yeah it's a lot do people in the paddock recog do people in the paddock I think quite often Kiwis we kind of think a lot higher than ourselves than anyone like you know well you know New Zealand's the most beautiful country in the world you know why would you want to live anywhere else and bloody Kiwis are awesome at everything. I think when you've been away for a while you realize that we just we're just really patriotic. But like do people in the paddock re Yeah yeah yeah do people in the paddock recognize that the Kiwi motorsport influence um or do they see you as just part of the KTM machine like I would say earlier like in the in the 90s there was still that the Kiwis had a really good name in the paddock.
SPEAKER_01:You know we were known as hard workers in those days when mechanics still had to drive the trucks and live on the road and be you know like Honda guys used to have to stay the whole year in Oust and work on the bikes between the races in the workshop and it was hard work there and the Kiwis had a fantastic name you know and it again for that reason that they only went to Europe for that. They didn't have to run home to go somewhere else they were go go to Europe for eight months a year and it would be flat out and fine. Now I would say we're just part of the machine a little bit. I mean I've been there too long now you know maybe new ones coming out but I wouldn't say that the Moto GP paddock is looking for Kiwis if you know what I mean to because that's a a call of talent if you like. You know I don't I yeah that's maybe changed a little bit more. Also us Kiwis always known to be able to work with our hands you know and uh that was maybe the the stronger part of us you know and now I would say most of the paddock they're looking you know like the feeding machine to Giucati is uh the universities in Italy you know that belong here yeah university and uh and these sort of things they're just plucking out the brightest minds and all the people there and feeding that so that's that's changed I would say definitely but don't get me wrong if you've got talent and you want to do it you can still do it. But I don't think now they really worry so much about where you come from. It's more about how you get in there and give it a go you know but we have a good name I don't mean that that's fine everyone knows where Kiwis are and I mean they they in Holland they some of the guys they call me the Orange Kiwi you know because it's uh the jewel you know so it's uh yeah but it's it's fine they they know where I'm from and I'm very very proud of where I'm from and nothing will change that so yeah man now me too I have um on my I have a on my on my arm here I have a
SPEAKER_00:says Fano right there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So um I'm I'm right there with you. Um now I'm gonna do a full circle to motor to motocross and then we're gonna sh then I'm gonna shut up because you started talking about motocross and uh we also sort of closed a little bit on Kiwi's you know role in motorsport.
SPEAKER_01:And um what strikes me and I'm talking about the talent again is what is it about New Zealand women that have done so well in motocross because you talked about the kings but you know obviously um you know Katherine Prume Courtney Duncan um Romey Edwards you know um Arnie Roberts uh I I had Avalon Lewis on the other day you know like what is it and like what is it about I mean this the whole I don't want to get too much into the the female topic because I don't want to piss people off but I definitely want to see more women riding at a high level right so you've got the FIM thing going on uh women's championship um you you you gotta go check out Kayla um Kayla Yakov if you haven't already she is phenomenal talent like I think she could be the first woman to actually ride at that at the world super support level pike level but what is it about women and motors and motocross man like the Kiwi girls they just seem to be kicking ass why can't we get more Kiwi men kicking ass and road mo and uh road racing yeah it's it's a strange one because I mean it's she's you probably know all those girls yeah yeah I know them all yeah exactly uh it's a tough sport I mean and uh I don't know maybe Kiwi women are tough I uh it's uh yeah I don't know I think also growing up I mean we had uh girl motocrossers that we raced against in the South Island even and stuff and it was never I think we were really open and letting them participate you know it wasn't uh we you know what I mean maybe it's a New Zealand thing uh that having a girl racer next to me was something that should be wild or or bad I was just like oh that's interesting there's a girl racing today you know but it was never you know many many countries or many things uh they talk about women's rights and blah blah blah but I think the Kiwis were we were not that bad in our day at at you know separating the the boys and the girls if you like you know I think uh my personal opinion like growing up in New Zealand in those times and it I I never really felt that we were discriminating anything and if you wanted to have a crack you have a crack at it maybe the good old Kiwi way of of that you know and then uh like I said in the South where we were where Courtney's from that that area was it's there was such a big motocross thing going on you know with the clubs and uh it was such a social thing and I guess they get involved or maybe yeah she knew somebody who did it and then all of a sudden it was easy.
SPEAKER_00:But uh it is strange and but the problem is it's world talent it's not that you're just riding a motorcycle it's actually really world talent so it's it's crazy it is crazy it's a good question hard to hard to ask no yeah man well and for the listers that are wondering why I'm talking about this Courtney Duncan won um four world championships at motocross um and then Catherine Proome won two and so you've got like you know you've got six world championships between two women in the last 20 years were women from New Zealand and so yeah it's pretty it's pretty cool. Man I really I I mean there's so much more to talk about but you're a busy guy running a really great team I'm gonna leave you with one more question then we're done. Do you ride on the street? And if you do what do you ride?
SPEAKER_01:To be honest I I did uh the last time I really had my own street bike was uh a Kawasaki Z600 at the time ZXR600 when I was working with Kawasaki and I was going back and forth the border uh so that I haven't done a lot on the on the streets um when I was when the motocross it was always did a lot of motocross riding because you could always take one of the training bikes you know so that was easy and it was a nice story. We when I went road racing we were just so busy and you're doing nothing and then one time Miguel Oliveira were in Portugal and said hey let's go for a ride you know and I think it'd been six or seven years that I'd not been on a bike and we went endura ride he organized a fantastic enduro ride for 170k through the Portugal I honestly that day was just reminding me so much more about why you fell in love with bike it was uh it was a crazy yeah to be honest I really like the I really like the the 990 the new one that's coming out from KTM this thing I've seen a bit and maybe I would throw my leg over that if I had a chance yeah man oh yeah no I'm definitely I'm definitely eyeing up that um as well and and the 1390 Super Duke.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah yeah yeah man I suppose you get your pick a bike so you probably get a bit of an employee discount man yeah I should hope so yeah well hey um man look I'm uh just a little guy in Seattle with a little podcast and you know I really appreciate you making the time uh and I know that all of the listeners really appreciate it as well and um mate great weekend last weekend and looks like you guys are starting to move forward nicely with both the teams so you got Gunther Steiner involved now too he's a hilarious I'd never hear him heard him swear so well he swears a lot but I it was pretty funny hearing him swear on the Moto GP podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it's a what a character it's gonna yeah let's see it's a bit chaos at the moment but uh anyway anyway Angus you're you're super welcome it was really nice to finally meet you and um you know it's always nice to to let some people know more insights you know and it's uh that is difficult and we're not untouchable we're just humans and uh we all share the same passion of bikes as as your listeners do you know so uh not a problem to do this it's sorry it took so long but uh we can make it a regular thing or whatever you want to do it's no big drama you know if you've got the next time you have a few more questions or maybe some listeners want to know some more then feel free to knock on the door again and see if we can organize something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah mate and uh if you ever come to Seattle I have a batch um up in the mountains. Batch is a Kiwi term by the way guys for holiday house and uh I have um dirt bikes up there and we have really good single tracks so yeah I'll take taking for a ride man so I'm gonna start I'm gonna no mate I I keep offering everyone to come up and I've got a few track bikes you can take out as well on our on our little tracks that we have here. We have a Motor America track that I ride at it's pretty it's pretty small by your standards but yeah yeah yeah the rich motorsport part because there's really only two tracks in the US that are Moto GP level now that's Austin obviously and maybe Laguna but I've ridden Laguna but that's probably too small now for your bikes but um yeah yeah you're gonna say something. Yeah no I was just there's that they're talking about that new place that uh the guy from track house is making no or got something involved by Charlotte Charlotte there or something like that or I don't know about that you might have some oh yeah you must have some yeah there's something new that apparently they they I saw some design and there was something going on and they were pushing quite hard to to build a complex out there somewhere oh that would be sweet yeah that would be sweet yeah I think the video I I'm gonna have to look that up yeah the video I sent you of course I was on the uh good old small inline four ZX4 double R Kawasaki I know you're an old Kawasaki guy that was pretty funny running a 400cc inline four cranking that around the track. Yeah but it's fun huh you felt you felt fast I yeah I was an old fat guy on the small bike I felt fast yeah but it it doesn't matter I'm gonna stop I'm gonna stop recording now and I'll say I'll say goodbye properly uh thank thanks a lot for mate it was really awesome
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