Inside MotoGP: Paul Trevathan on Life as Pedro Acosta’s Crew Chief

Paul Trevathan: From Kiwi Roots to MotoGP Crew Chief — Guiding Pedro Acosta & Unlocking the Secrets of the Paddock

What does a MotoGP crew chief really do? In this episode, I sit down with Paul Trevathan, crew chief for rising KTM superstar Pedro Acosta. From his Kiwi beginnings in New Zealand motorsport to leading in the world’s fastest motorcycle championship, Paul shares his journey to the top and what it takes to succeed at MotoGP level.

We break down the crew chief’s role — the bridge between rider feedback, raw data, and race-winning decisions. Paul explains how he works with riders under pressure, the unique challenge of guiding a young prodigy like Acosta, and the culture inside KTM’s MotoGP team.

We also dive into the legacy of New Zealand in motorsports, and how Kiwi grit and resourcefulness continue to make waves on the global stage. If you’ve ever wanted to peek behind the garage doors of MotoGP, this conversation pulls back the curtain.

Transcript

Angus Norton (00:01.92)
All right. Well, good day, everyone. as I said earlier, it's awesome to have, another fellow Kiwi, joining me, on the podcast. And, today I'm really excited to welcome, Paul Trevathon to the podcast and, Paul, man, what a great weekend you just had. It's a great time to be talking to you. Welcome. Tell us a bit about yourself, who you are, all that fun stuff.

Paul Trevathan (00:28.6)
Yeah, welcome. Yeah. Hi, guys. Good to be on the podcast. It's something that we've been trying to get to get to do for a little time now, but we always seem to miss each other and never quite get the timing right. But anyway, we're going to have a good time this time and try to get to know you guys can try to get to know me a little bit better through the nice questions from Angus there. And we can see where it all leads. But yeah, as many maybe people know who are following MotoGP, I'm a crew chief for Pedro Acosta.

Kiwi born, Kiwi bred, come from the Dunedin area, was born a little bit more south from that from Bacluca, was a motocross rider growing up. So went around New Zealand with my parents, flat out on the back of the trailer, the bikes and stuff. And I'd spent most of our holidays hauling around that. So had a great time doing that when I was younger. And then, yeah, made the jump across to Europe. It was actually not planning to ever become a motocross crew chief in all fairness. was...

I wanted to see the world. That was my biggest ambition at that time. And being a motocross boy, I wanted to really get into Europe and check out the Northern Europe area, Belgium and places like that where it was a motocross mecca at that time. So we left with the backpacks and one girlfriend from the time. I think it was 91, in 1991 when we finally did it and said to my mom and dad, maybe I'll be away for two years, two and a half years. And off we went with one way tickets to Europe.

We sort of traveled through Hawaii and went across America from LA to New York and ended up in Europe. Did the most stupid thing in my life by cycling through Switzerland to the Netherlands. So that was quite a trip. Went through France and into Belgium and things and over across. So I got to the motocross des nations of that year in 91, which was in Valkenswil in the Netherlands. And that's sort of where the story changed a little bit.

At that time, you guys would have known that, you know, know, the King brothers, of course, and there was also another brighter called Troy Mackesy and they were writing for the New Zealand team at that stage. I think maybe Darrell Atkins was Darrell King, maybe and Troy. And at that time I met up with him. And of course, we knew each other from the motocross stage and I started to help them out that weekend. And then at that time I met another factory motocross mechanic called Graham Kent, who was a factory KTM mechanic at that time. And at that moment, then

Paul Trevathan (02:53.164)
Yeah. It's got some connection problem there. You still hear me, mate?

Angus Norton (02:59.874)
Yep, no, here, it's just fine, Paul, you're no worries.

Angus Norton (03:07.704)
probably a little bit of latency, but we can edit that out later. It's no problem.

Angus Norton (03:24.31)
know if you're talking right now.

Angus Norton (03:39.65)
might have lost you.

Angus Norton (05:11.617)
g'day, Paul.

Paul Trevathan (05:13.339)
That's maybe a bit better if I had to get on the phone because it looks like this internet's terrible, my dear.

Angus Norton (05:17.998)
Oh mate, no worries at all. And I won't make you repeat everything you just said, cause I'll just, I'll just splice it in and we'll figure it out. Um, but yeah, man. Yeah. We got you. lost you at, um, and you met a KTM engineer mechanic. Um, and then, um, we talked about, um, the, the, um, dirt bike stuff, which I definitely want to talk to you about. Cause I was raised a part of my life on a farm. um, yeah, I like, I like dirt bikes. Um, yeah. So did you want to keep.

Paul Trevathan (05:19.655)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (05:24.679)
what it does out there. Yeah, no worries.

Paul Trevathan (05:32.565)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (05:42.287)
Okay, yep.

Angus Norton (05:46.808)
keep going from like, yeah. So you, so you, so you ended up in the Netherlands, met a KTM guy and then.

Paul Trevathan (05:55.27)
Yeah, and then, yeah, then we, at that time, he was asking what I wanted to do. It was coming into the winter. And to be honest, I was thinking about picking fruit or doing sitting on the Greek beach, renting out jet skis or something completely different than mechanicals. Cause I'd done my motorcycle apprenticeship in New Zealand. And I just finished that before we left, basically. It's spent another year working there before we left. then, and then he said that he knew a guy who was looking for somebody who knew something about four strokes.

in motocross motorcycle shop in Belgium and I said, maybe that would be much better than going to England for the winter for sure. Cause I sort of wanted to stay in that area a little bit and be more mainland Europe, you know? And then that was a big turning point. I ended up meeting these guys. They looked at me, I was 21 years old and they looked at me a bit suspicious like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You sure you know what you can do and can't do? And I said, yeah, look, why don't you give me a try and we see. So I ended up going back with them at the end of that event.

And the car spent the night there and within a week they gave me an apartment and a car so I could all around and so it was quite successful. And this shop turned out to be like a little motocross mecca of Northern Europe. know, all the top Scandinavian riders used to come down and base themselves there. There was this big car park out the back and they had a sauna and sort of like a communal working area and cleaning area. And they had a massive workshop inside. it was like they did everything from tuning to suspension.

and all sorts. was like I landed on my feet there really well, you know, and then there were two crazy guys, earned black money, you know, good, good black money, must say, paid every Saturday morning and we had lived the life there through the winter, to be honest, we had a really good time. And then after that, the racing world sort of started to hone in a little bit more. I got the first offer to go to Germany to work with Bernd Eckenbach, a German motocross 250 rider at that time for the world championship.

Angus Norton (07:30.83)
Yep.

Angus Norton (07:51.682)
Yeah, I remember him.

Paul Trevathan (07:52.738)
Yep. So I thought, okay, why not give that a go? So I my girlfriend off. We went again and lived in the south of Germany, just in a small village outside Stuttgart. That was a disaster. That was, it was like, didn't leave New Zealand and to go around the world and spend my time in Germany. I think I was too young to understand everything there. And to be honest, me and the rider didn't particularly get on that good. He was nice enough guy, but we just didn't click, you know, you, you'd go to the south of France training and spend 12 hours in a truck and

He didn't talk to each other, you know, it was like, so, but the parents, the family were fantastic people and I got on good there. So I stuck it out for like three months and then I said, nah, this is, this is not what I want to do. You know, this is not where I want to be. And it just so happened that the shop that I was working at before phoned me up and asked how things were going and offered me a job back again. They just got a dyno and asked me to come back and run that. So was like, okay, what perfect timing. said, how long does it take to get here? And they said, we can come tomorrow. So.

It was a quick trip back to Belgium. And then I spent another year working there. And at that time, the King brothers were based there as well. So both Shane and Darryl. And then I got started to my first professional year of working only solely for racing was 2000, sorry, 1994 then. And me and Darryl worked together in the 500 world motocross championship. So that was also a, yeah, me and Darryl got on very, very well. We were living next door to each other also at that time in Belgium. We

Yeah, we're having a great year to be honest. And then he crashed and broke his sternum. And of course being a privateer and everything else, the fee wasn't racing, the money wasn't coming in. So it sort of left it a little bit of a, oh, what are we going to do now type situation. And again, quite lucky that there was a company called Spes Exhaust Systems and the owner was Perish. And he said, oh, why don't you come and help me out on the dyno? You can help me do the development. I do the pipes, you do running the dyno and we can get a lot of work done quicker.

And I was like, okay, this guy was a unique character. He was the guy that used to wear sunglasses basically when he's welding and always had the cigar sitting on the edge of his lip and yeah, had a hammer that had his hand print in it and shape that no one else could use, but an unbelievable sheet metal worker. yeah, it was incredible what this guy could do with his hands and a flat sheet of metal was fantastic. But we got on very well and I worked there for like three or four months, I guess.

Angus Norton (10:01.23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (10:21.247)
And at that time, Husqvarna, we're looking for a guy to run to help them out with Johan Boenen, another motocross rider from Belgium. So I started talking to them about becoming a full-time mechanic at that stage. And it just so happened at that time, were also, Perro was doing the factory Kawasaki motocross 250 pipes and stuff for a guy who had gone to growth from the Netherlands. And he used to come to us quite often. We're doing development together.

And while this was all going on, he kept asking questions to Pera about me a little bit and then come to the point that he said, can you come and see me also? So I hadn't quite signed the deal from Husqvarna. And so I said, okay, let's come and see him. then, well, I think we spoke for an hour and made a deal, you know, this guy and I clicked, the Kawasaki 250 thing kind of excited me more than the Husqvarna project for sure. And then that started the real international career of myself. So I spent, six years.

working there, won Kawasaki's first World Motocross Championship at that time. So that was a fantastic achievement from us with Stefan Evitz. And then later with Sebastian Tortelli, we won two more in the time that I was there as well. Talon Voll in the EFDM area. Fred Bollet, this era of motocross riders from all in the Kawasaki all come through us at that time. So Pit Baier, guys whose name you'll hear about a bit later where we had the connection.

Angus Norton (11:26.946)
Yeah.

Angus Norton (11:42.104)
Yeah. Yep.

Paul Trevathan (11:45.567)
So we all worked together, Marnie reports another fantastic character. But yeah, I that. So I started as mechanic and then ended up being the crew chief in that organization as well. then, yeah, in the year 2000, was a little bit like, okay, Yan and Kawasaki were talking a little bit about maybe me taking over. Yan was getting older. They were trying to sort of understand what we can do and should we do something or not. But it was a bit difficult to learn the commercial side from Yan. Yan had a lot of old school sponsors.

who were his friends and it was working really good and I was a little bit nervous about that side of it. Kawasaki supported good but you still needed backing so it was a bit tricky to really, especially being a Kiwi on the other side of the world, a little bit difficult to really understand. And then at that time Kawasaki were running like a junior motocross program, so supporting teams around. then Mike Church, who run the church motocross team from England and junior riders at that point,

knocking on the door and needing a team manager and being basic technical manager and team manager. So I took that challenge on to go manage that team based in England and did that for three years. And in that time, that's where things started to get interesting with the road racing point of view is that another guy I had met through the motocross side was Christoph Boudignon who's the

LCR crew chief was working many years in LSF. Still there now as more of a technical boss, but he was the crew chief for Randy Dupuynier, Carl Krux, so the big fluffy Belgium that's working there was a good friend and I hadn't spoken to him for years. And then all of a sudden he just come out of the blue and phoned me and said, hey, hey, haven't you ever thought about getting your ass over to the road racing yet? And I was like, it's been too long and I'm...

busy enjoying this stuff now and at quite a good level. So I'm not sure he said, well, come to an event and then we'll, see what happens. And at that stage he was working with Peter Clifford and the WCM team when they made their, their, their first, how do you say, Motorjp four stroke project, if you like. So we were having, I went there 2004 and Bruna was the first race. Sorry, that was a 2003 in Bruna. And then I went there and of course it was interesting.

Paul Trevathan (14:03.162)
You know, it something that another level, another idea of what to do. And of course, the engineering side of that was fascinating also in the fact that they were doing their own project. There was a lot going on. There was a lot of good experienced people because it was coming from the Red Bull Yamaha days. They carried a lot of people over. So we got talking. There was an idea that they wanted me to become a crew chief. I was not really pumped on that idea. I had too much respect for the sport and

Angus Norton (14:20.238)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Paul Trevathan (14:30.187)
and the people that were there to really think about really wanting to do that. You know, I was more keen to go in the back room a little bit and learn and understand, you know. And then so we kept talking a little bit and then at end of that year, they were not sure if they had the budget for 24 or not and stuff. So I was sort of waiting a little bit and but thinking, OK, nothing's going to really happen. I'll continue what I'm doing. And then all of sudden, Peter phoned me out of the blue and said, hey, we got the money. I've sent you a contract.

ever look at it and we go out and yeah, but what's the job? said, I don't know, just look at the contract and we'll ever look. Then we can talk. So yeah, it was the crew chief job. So it was a bit of a shocker. It was like, oh God, what am I doing to do? So we, I thought a bit, sorry. Yeah. Now.

Angus Norton (15:11.713)
Yeah, yeah.

no, no, no, I'm just going, yeah, it's a great story.

Paul Trevathan (15:18.042)
Yeah, yeah. So it was like, holy shit, what am I going to do now? You know, is it going to be this or that? And then I thought about it and thought, well, I can always come back here. It's probably a chance of a lifetime. So why don't I go and have a go at it? You know, but the problem was we're a bit late, so we never got any testing in or anything. So I turned up at the Jerez Grand Prix was the first one that we joined. So it was the second round of 24 and straight into racing. So that was a shock. That was a big shock. So, of course, I'm sure you'll. Yeah.

Angus Norton (15:46.316)
Wow.

Paul Trevathan (15:48.192)
And there was some guys there who for sure were not so pumped to have this motocross guy running the team on that side of the box. The rider was Chris Burns. also looked a bit nervous, to be honest. But you know, we never had dealt with carbon brakes, the amount of tires that Dunlop was throwing at it. was like every run was new tires trying to find the tire for the weekend. The bike itself, I didn't know. Yeah, the data side of it, we weren't really doing much of motocross at that point.

So was a big wake up call, know, was like, and I remember I knew some of the boys in Odin's who were some friends through the motor cross and things like that. And they were working there and somehow I managed to get through the first session, you know, and the thing that struck me was that the crew chief is the boss. Like nothing happens unless he say so. So was like the feeling of power was almost a little bit overwhelming, you know? And it was like nobody wanted to touch anything. Nobody wanted to do anything until I said, okay, this guy's that.

do this and it was like almost like a conductor of an orchestra. was like, holy moly. And this part shocked me a little bit. never, I never expected it to be of that level of intensity in the session and that only one guy is running the show, you know? So that was a bit of a like, but anyway, I got through that and we, I went to see the guys at Olin's and they were like, Hey Paul, how was it? Everything okay? said, well, I've got chatter and I got pumping. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this track, we have that all the time, blah, blah, blah. I said, okay, but what the hell is it?

And they all nearly fell over laughing their heads off. yeah, was the terminology, you know, and then they explained to me and I said, okay, I'll try this and that. And I said, okay, you'll be fine. But anyway, that was the start of the craziness on that first time. then we managed to, one of the deals that I made with, with Peter coming was that I, if I come, need to learn. And the only way of learning is to do it. I don't want to open books. I don't want to understand through that. want to understand by doing stuff, you know, so I

explained to my riders at that time, hey, look, I'm going to maybe do some bigger steps in normal, but I need to learn. I said, of course, please don't go and throw it down the road so that you can tell me I'm an idiot. If it feels like you can't ride it, then bring it back in. I'm not here to kill you. I'm just here to learn, you know, but we don't have to be stupid. It's all. then they understood that sometimes I did some maneuvers that some of the guys have around a little bit longer were a little bit gray before the bike left the left the box. But I think

Paul Trevathan (18:14.262)
Looking back in that time, there was a big phenomenon in road racing that was really different to motocross was the fact that you change one part of the bike, but then you change everything else around to make the bike the same. you know, and this part in motocross was more, you learned more by trail and error. Okay, if I want to change the pivot, I change the pivot. If I want to change the swing arm length, I change the swing arm length. If I want to change trail I change the trail. But in the road racing, there was this fundamental

Angus Norton (18:28.014)
Hmm.

Paul Trevathan (18:43.924)
thing that I felt that, you know, okay, if you do all that, but then you have to compensate, you know, so in the end, you're just basically putting the same bike out there, geometry wise, but playing around with some numbers, you know, and this part was, said, I'll never ever learn anything by doing this. This is going to be a disaster. I went, I guess the old style of motocross and just said, okay, let's do, let's see what trail does. Let's see what the steering angle does. Let's go open, let's go closed. What happens when I just do a pivot? So I did all this type of thing. I learned a lot.

absolutely crazy amount of stuff. Had really good relationships in the team. We started scoring points. We got results that no one ever expected. Peter was a fantastic boss. He was very straight, very honest. And to be honest, maybe too honest for the world of motorsport at that time, because you know, Peter always wanted to make sure that he had the money in the pocket before he said yes. You know, in the motorsport there was some of the team owners at that time were more like

Yes, yes, yes. And then they got the bikes or whatever and then they didn't pay for them. So Peter was the good thing was that he was at least what he said he did, he did. But of course, being that honest, he didn't survive that long as being a team manager without the backing of somebody like Red Bull. So after a couple of years, that project sort of fell through. He couldn't find the backing. It was talk with Blatter, a Czech company and things like that, you know, the V6 project and all that stuff. They really tried hard to keep something going, but in the end it was impossible.

I thought, okay, maybe the MotoGP time is over and we'll go and do something else. But then at that time, Ohlins come knocking. So Matt Slassen was the head of racing. We knew each other a little bit and he come along with me one day and basically said, hey, what do you got anything planned already for next year? I said, no, at the moment we're looking like we're not going to go racing. He said, no problem. You come work with me then. So I ended up working at Ohlins then, so back with some spanners in the hands and worked for Ohlins for 10 years.

So that was another fantastic company. My task at that time was to work with Aprilia. Aprilia had sort of bought the suspension in-house. So they did a lot of, they had some great technicians working there, but they controlled everything. They bought just the product from Ohlins and they did all the fine tuning, the development of their own settings and things like that. But they felt that they'd gone away a little bit from KTM, sorry, KTM, from Ohlins and they needed some partnership back again, you know.

Paul Trevathan (21:09.684)
So I got into that and I ended up working at where I first met Gigi. Gigi was the boss of Prettier Racing at that time. So I worked in the 125 and 250. Yeah, Gigi Duanghi, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I understood straight away that he was a different character. The racing blood and the will to win was phenomenal from that guy. He pushed like hell. So I'm not surprised that he is doing what he's doing now.

Angus Norton (21:16.93)
Yeah. Is Gigi Thelenian? Yep.

Paul Trevathan (21:39.443)
He had a good way of getting the best out of people. Even letting you explore maybe a little bit more, even if it wasn't really wanted, if you know what I mean. If you went a little bit over the range and then kind of said, sorry afterwards, but they learned something, he was super pumped about this type of openness and pushing the limits a little bit. But anyway, I worked there for four years, I think, with them. And then when Olin switched to

When Honda switched to Odins in the MotoGP class in 2009, if I remember right, halfway through that, then Mats and Honda wanted me to go work in the Red Sox box. So that was back into the MotoGP world again. So at that time, I was not that keen to go. I was really enjoying the Aprilia, enjoying working with the kids. There you could really help people. I was working for six riders and...

So you're busy like, oh, and you're jumping from box to box, you, were changing your, not your character, but you're changing what they need. And you go to one box, maybe a crew chief needed a friend, needed somebody that he could lean on and ask questions about, do you think about the trail? What do you think about the tires? Just you really become part of that team member. Some riders needed extra support. Some crew chief didn't want you to talk to the rider because then it was taking the power away from him. So you had to fit into all these different.

solutions, but it was a super way of, again, learning a lot and learning to deal with people. Everyone was different nationalities, different languages, but I had a really good rapport. really enjoyed that class. when they said, okay, you're to go and work for Honda and on the Danny Pedroza side, it was a bit of a shock. And also to the fact that at that time that was not the nice and happy team of the paddock. There was always this stigma around that they were assholes, if you like.

You know, they were very cold. They kept it very clinical. wasn't really the place that you really wanted to come in. Honda was Honda. Don't get me wrong. But that side of the garage was a little bit like, this looks like hard work. You know, it's very stale. It's not nobody's having fun. And I'm the complete opposite. If I'm not laughing and joking around, it's not who I am. So it's very difficult to spend that amount of time in a box when you've got to be that serious. But anyway.

Angus Norton (23:43.726)
Hmm.

Paul Trevathan (23:57.651)
I didn't have much say in the end. It was really a big request from Matt. But when I got in there, completely he was the opposite. I think it was part of the way that they got results. Just keep the outside world out. And if you're a team, you're a team. And then put up this big shelter around you. So it turned out that we worked really, really well together. And I spent five years there, think. Longer.

Yeah, yeah, around five years here working with him So fighting for the titles the time that Casey come in the box was there also with mark coming up So seeing those characters seeing how they operated was also a really really interesting time, you know and the course working with Honda yeah, just to see the power that they had to do things and Create what they created also the mess they could make because it was always

pushing the envelope, always new bikes, new bikes, new bikes, never thinking about just tickling what they had. It had to be a new concept, had to be a new idea. So it was great, we did the 800 back to the thousand era of development and all that stuff being part of all that was really quite interesting to be part of. And also the fact that Honda really opened up a little bit and let us be more than just the Owens company on the outside. You could really.

talked to engineers about stuff and it was a really open relationship. another great experience to be honest. then, yeah, yeah. And then the thing comes where everything changed again is I remember the name Pitt buyer. So we'd worked together in the motocross world. We had his best results of the year. We got a second and third in the world with Pitt. He phoned me out of again, not.

Angus Norton (25:28.854)
Wow.

Angus Norton (25:39.277)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Trevathan (25:48.365)
speaking for probably 10 years. I knew KTM were in the paddock of course with their Moto3 project because that had all happened. But yeah, I was not really thinking much about all that and I was too busy doing what I was doing and then all of a sudden Pit phoned out of the blue and said, hey, I've got some ideas. What's the chance that we can have a chat about you coming to work for KTM? said, what? for KTM for what? I booked, but I don't really think I'm happy here. Anyway, we got talking again. Yeah, I mean, the guy's character is phenomenal, know.

Angus Norton (26:10.221)
you

Paul Trevathan (26:18.642)
A world-class athlete and one guy who maybe didn't have the talent but knew how to work hard and was incredible motivation to be with this guy racing. It was the heart, he wore his heart on his sleeve and the throttle was wide open and the will of trying and pushing was incredible. And when speaking to this guy, I was there also when he broke his back. So I was in the race watching that, that was not so far across from all the mechanics area. So that was horrific.

But then you saw, you know, how he responded to that, you know, and just got on with his life. and to this day, he's, he's incredible motivation for anybody who's working in their company, you know, because the guy's just honored, you know, traveling around the world every weekend, he's away somewhere doing some racing series in energy. I mean, when you travel a lot, you realize how bad that is. And then if you've got to deal with it like that, then it adds a another, yeah. Yeah. Terrible level of.

Angus Norton (27:08.291)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (27:15.696)
complication on top of everything, but he never, never stops smiling and pushing us all. anyway, more about pit, but yeah. So we ended up deciding that, okay, let's, let's go for it. There was talk of the motor to be project at that time. And, the main, what they wanted me to do the first year, which at 15 is to get the motor three thing running a bit differently. So get that up and running in a bit of a level where customers were happy, riders were happy and

Angus Norton (27:39.288)
Hmm.

Paul Trevathan (27:45.763)
And then we see what we do after that was the main focus of 15. So that was again, I mean, I wasn't so keen. My wife was the one who maybe made the final push where she said, you know, if you want to do one more challenge in your life, this will probably be it. No. Or do you want to just stay at Orleans and keep doing what you're doing? But maybe this would be something that you would enjoy. And it was I think the most appealing part was having the bike in your hands again, the whole bike, you know, this was the part because it was track support was the official job title. And so, yeah, that was a

Angus Norton (28:08.396)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paul Trevathan (28:15.788)
Another great experience. was, worked mainly with the Red Bull KTM team at that time. So Aki Ayo's team, Brad Binder and Miguel Oliveira were the riders at that time. And then, yeah, we had three guys like me pushing around the whole paddock and trying to get the bike sorted. it was a, yeah, nice again, as I said, to have the whole bike and be part of a factory where you would be in the factory. You know, you're in the development side of it. You start to.

meet the people, learn what they're doing, do talking chassis stiffness, geometry, triple clamps, gearbox, yeah, everything was in your hands again, you know, so this was a really nice time. And at the same time, they managed to steal Mike Leitner, who was the crew chief of Danny. So we'd already spent five years working together and he'd come and his job was to start to get the motor GP team up and running. So they had the engineering staff was already in KTM.

Angus Norton (28:50.712)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (29:09.39)
and then he was the guy then put in charge to make a team. So he spent 15 getting the team up and running. And then, of course, the idea was that in 16, I would go and work in the Mojave project. It was never decided at the crew chief job again. That was always not really talked about. But of course, into the year, they said, OK, we're going to do it, but you're going to be the crew chief. I was like, OK, here we go again. then so, yeah, again, it's not like I told you it was not.

wasn't the biggest ambition to be that man, you know, it was just to be part of the, of the development, part of the process, you know? And I think looking back now, it's, it's still a fantastic achievement. And maybe the last manufacturer who can really do it was to come from nothing and then be in the motorgyp and to build a bike at this level in this day and age is a, it's been a fantastic journey, you know, and you're still learning every day. It's an incredible.

Achievement something that I'm super super proud of myself, but also for KTM and all the people that's working in the team There's been some fantastic moments. We've had But yes, that's where we got to up to date pretty much. So been there KTM since No, no, keep going buddy

Angus Norton (30:13.197)
Yeah.

Angus Norton (30:16.749)
Man, that's...

Angus Norton (30:21.004)
Now that's, that's such a great story. as I listened to you, I see parallels of other people I know that have sort of started out as builders, engineers, operators, and then had to go learn new skills around leadership and the business and all these things that come with being a leader. Cause you know, I mean, my background is technology and I have a lot of great engineers and developers and stuff. And it doesn't mean they can go and run a team and get things going. And so it sounds like you've done this kind of left to right.

across all those things. you know, what's really interesting to me, Paul, listen to your talk. I definitely want to talk about MotoGP is what is it about Southland? What is it about Southland, man? That like, you know, I you're part of the Otago motorcycle club and you come from Weyself, know, Belkloof is Weyself, but whether it's like, you know, Jenny Holm or Cormac Buchanan, even guys like George Begg, yourself.

What is it about that part of New Zealand, obviously Burt Monroe, what is it about New Zealand, that part of New Zealand that produces fricking petrel heads like you?

Paul Trevathan (31:23.182)
It's a really good question. I mean, there's such a love for motorsport down there. know what I mean? It's like, yeah, like every dealership that I went to and then you had somebody who was a top class racer, you know, like we had Mike McCutcheon, you know, one of them. And I was working at, I was sponsored a little bit by the dealership that he was working in when I was racing motocross. And then you had this production 250 champion in New Zealand.

We're gonna zone stuff and tinkering away and you could sit beside him and do your bike and he was telling you all sorts of stuff about what's going on and then later worked in. I'm tripping to go with the MacCutcheon motorcycles and he was a top three New Zealand motocross rider so there's another one there and then you had the beaches you know McIver and beach shoes got a long history and racing and. Okay not at the New Zealand championship level is sending the in was about also a top a top rider don't get me wrong you know but you all this.

field of riding, was just such a big happening and such a, I don't know, a desire to go racing down that way. I don't know what's in the blood or what's in the water they got down there, but it was a real thing, you know? And it was, when I fell in love with motorcycles, I think when I was four years old, and I remember not going to bed when mom and dad wanted and some mini bike program come on, you know, the little lawnmower, pull start engines that you...

Yep, with the fat wheels on the beach and I saw this and I went crazy. I thought, okay, that's it. And I begged and nagged and jumped up and down until I got one of those, you know, and I, that's where the story started. And it's all these years later, you're still, I still have that passion, you know, you're still, it's why, you know, to be able to make your job out of your passion is a, is an absolute fantastic thing. And it's, it's not work, you know, it's a, it's, you know, many people ask also like with my wife and my kids and

You know, I love when I turn into the street at home and go see my family and I can be a dad and a husband. But I also love when I roll out of it and go to go racing, you know, and it's a it's a fantastic combination. But yeah, what it is in Southland, I don't know if maybe there's not that much more to do. I think I mean, we're lucky we have some tracks down there. We have the land, you know, with the there was a great environment of farmers who let us build tracks, you know, all the time. Every June,

Paul Trevathan (33:45.013)
parent was involved. was just, yeah, it was just something we did, I guess. Yeah, but it is a crazy thing when you mention all the names and looking back, you didn't think about that then, you know, it was just what we did. No, not at all.

Angus Norton (33:57.102)
No, you didn't, right? Yeah. And then I suppose you've also got like, obviously guys like John Britton, who's a bit further north than you, but you know, and there's some of the parks, I think it was at Taratanga Park. It was a real famous racing venue down there. I mean, it's real cool. And so you've made this transition from being a guy that got his apprenticeship working on motorcycles. There's not many people that actually know how to work on carbureted engines these days. It's pretty funny when I talk to mechanics.

Paul Trevathan (34:13.533)
Exactly.

Angus Norton (34:26.318)
But your story is actually a little bit similar to Simon Kreyfuss because he was an apprentice mechanic. He's from Auckland though. I know you guys love Aucklanders. But then he worked at Olin's for a while as well after he finished racing and did a bunch of things. The suspension whispering side of the sport is something I definitely want to get into because it's amazing what you learn from suspension. But I'm curious, like many fans here, the term crew chief.

Paul Trevathan (34:41.297)
Exactly.

Angus Norton (34:55.816)
And I don't think they really know what the role entails. think you described it a little bit, but it sounds like you're trying to balance engineering strategy and sometimes even kind of being a psychologist for the writer. Yeah. Like how do you describe it?

Paul Trevathan (35:10.553)
Yeah, it's a complex job and you can make it as complex or as simple as you want. The big thing in being the crew chief at the moment is that there always needs to be one guy in the box. There needs to be a leader. There needs to be somebody who orchestrates what's going on. Now with the teams being as big as we are, we go around the world with 50 people. So there's a lot of people in the event. There's a lot of backroom staff, a lot of

fantastic minds and engineers behind you. so they, mean, the key now I think with being, it's changed a lot, know, so you don't have to be the, how do you say, the one who knows it all. You know what I mean? And I think to be successful in, in Grand Prix mechanic, well, crew chiefing now is to understand that, is to understand that, you know, you, there's at every point inside that garage, there's somebody better at doing one thing than you. So you'd be stupid not to.

take that advice and listen to it. You know, and I really love that I give the freedom in my team of all the boys that come on, what's your idea? Put it on the table, show me what you got, you know? But then you gotta remember you got 20 people. So the rider stops, he has a problem and then you got 20 people from electronics to the suspension, to pure data, to the chassis guys, to performance engineering from the riding point of view who all wanna help. But you can't change everything.

So otherwise you're going to get completely lost. So then that's the job of the crew team now to take that information somehow and understand really what the rider needs. What is the situation of the tracksuit conditions? Do we have the right tire on the bike to have that type of, do we work on strategies with the wrong set of tire? Are we looking for grip when we have a track where every time you go out the tire de-greggs so much that you're not going to get the right information. So it's understanding the principles of what a motorcycle is.

And then understanding the situation around it and what your rider really needs. You some days you look at the rider and he's, and you know, every time the rider stops, there's 10 guys in front of him with clipboards wanting the information. What's going on with it? And you, I just look at him in the eyes and say, you know what, you need just 10 more laps, buddy. Okay guys, go away. put the, yep, guys, let's get back out and let them do some riding because it's, it's too much, you know, they're not ready to give you the input and you get lost. If you start to move from that point onwards, always, you know,

Paul Trevathan (37:37.198)
So it's, I wouldn't say it's complicated and I'm really trying to keep it very simple, but I really have a lot of respect for all the people in my team. And as I said, I think you need to let them shine and give them the responsibility and they all make you look better in the end, but you still have to make those calls and those right decisions at the time.

Angus Norton (37:56.75)
Yeah, I saw all those orange shirts when I was in Austin. You and I going to try to catch up. We didn't make it. You had busier things to worry about like running your team, but we ended up staying in the same hotel. So I saw all your orange shirts running around. It's amazing. There's 50 of you at least. And I suppose like for a guy that has seen the progression from having a spanner and some good suspension and knowing a bit or two about motorcycles to now you've got software people running around with.

million amounts of machine learned data that you're running through these AI prompts and things. You've got all this data. Not only if you're a mechanic, but it sounds as though you've got to have folks on your team that are software savvy. And then you've got to figure out, what do you prioritize to work on? can't do it all. There's another person involved, right? And that's the writer. I listened to Peter Baum quite a bit. I quite like Peter Baum's way he talks about data.

And like, I'm curious, like, I hear that some writers are just amazing. They can just translate in a way that engineers understand and like, what's, what's, what, where does the writer come in for you? Cause you've got pure talent, literal talented, obviously, what's the right, how, know, what's difference between a really good feedback and not good feedback in terms of winning a championship?

Paul Trevathan (39:16.372)
Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question. there's a lot of, mean, you know, the whole world's getting much more technical. So everyone's thinking that we need all these special programs and all the stuff. And of course it helps everything, you know, but you know, motorcycles have been around a long time and they're a horrible thing, you know, they just want to go straight. You know, we've got telescopic forks on the bikes since the fifties and nobody can make anything better. You know, for some reason, a rider needs friction and he needs a reducing trail.

Angus Norton (39:35.576)
Mm-hmm.

Angus Norton (39:41.576)
Gyroscope.

Paul Trevathan (39:45.066)
to feel like you should go around the corner. Physics, it's completely the worst thing you could ever do, but it's something that make motorcycles work. So there's so much black magic in a motorcycle you don't believe. if you try to engineer it or if you try to understand it all completely, then you get lost in all the little details. And I think part of my makeup is, and maybe what is, I would say a strong point is that coming from the motocross world, you had to listen to the rider. We didn't have data.

We didn't have all that stuff back in the day, but you listened to the rider. You understood what you tried to be asked the right question, get the right information to make educated guess on changing the bike. And also what that did is made you not be scared to change the bike. Okay. So now you have this new era where I would say possibly in the pedicom, the last old school guy who's come from the background we have, most guys who are crew chiefs now have come through universities.

have been a data or an electronic engineer and then climbed the ladder from that point of view to really go from the mechanical side to that now. I it's probably I don't think anyone would think about it anymore, you because everyone believes you need this and stuff. But like I say, there's so many of those good people we can have anyway that you still need. In some ways, it's quite nice to be think a little bit simple, you know, and the rider input is for me, number one. The data happens because of the result of what the rider and the bike are doing.

That's not the, how do you say, the gold. That's to try to analyze its data and understand what the rider's point of view through the data is. Instead of looking at the data and saying the rider is wrong, it's gotta be like this. It's more about for me trying to see what the rider's meaning through why he does that, why he's stopping earlier. Why don't you have the feeling to release the brakes at that point? Why is it this? Why is it that? Is it the riding? Is it the line? Is it the...

Do we need to change something? I mean, you get the very, very good riders and you can put every, any spring rate on the front you want. And I guarantee you they'll put that bike in the mid corner position. So we're talking when you release the brake and when you don't touch the throttle and the position of that bloody motorcycle will be one or two millimeters out. And it didn't matter what front spring or what rear spring you do because they feel that bike needs that position to go around the corner. So you get sometimes if you just go by numbers.

Angus Norton (41:56.6)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (42:11.727)
You're like, the guy at the mid-corner position is perfect. Why do we have to touch that? Why is he complaining? Why is he complaining? Because he has to do something on that bike that he doesn't want to do to put the bike in that position. So this is the key that,

Angus Norton (42:21.912)
Wow. That's the difference. Well, that's the difference right between like an old fat man like me riding a club racing and track days and guy like that.

Paul Trevathan (42:29.743)
Yeah. No, no, but it's, you know what I mean? This is the, mean, it's incredible. The more skilled the rider, the faster they are, they have this ability, you know? So then for me, sometimes, and especially in the session, we have one hour or you have a 45 minute session. That's three runs, maximum four runs. That's not a lot of time on the track. So for me, the most important thing is to get the bike, get the rider on the bike and then get the data. So we have the more data we have, the more that we can try to understand things.

Angus Norton (42:34.339)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (42:57.723)
So many times if a rider comes in and say, Paul, I feel the front diving too quick. I won't look at the data. I'll just put a step and spring. Let's go. Okay, let's go back out there. Then we get that, how was that? Oh yeah, that was better. No, actually it was worse. All right, let's go the other way. Because also the rider can be wrong. You know, but by putting him on the track and putting him, you're getting him to be able to learn also from the feeling. Instead of just going straight to the down and say, no, no, no, you're wrong. I'm gonna put this in. But then you start to lose the trust in the guy. Say, fuck, my crew chief doesn't listen to me.

So that becomes the mental side of it. So you have to play the game. have to understand and know when you should do these things and when you shouldn't do these things. But for me, the most important is that I always say the information's on the track. You can sit in the box for five minutes longer than everyone else. For what? You're gonna learn nothing by that. So it's better you get a feeling of what he's got. I mean, I always have a plan before every session. Okay, if the guy comes in and says, I'm running wide, okay, or I need more turning. Okay, my suspension guy, we've got three different.

Angus Norton (43:26.734)
Mm.

Paul Trevathan (43:54.626)
Shocks already set up with different top outs, different things. My strategy guide. Okay. What have we got on the switches? You know, we can change three switches of engine brake, rider torque, demand, and wheelie control and all these things. So what have we got available for the rider? So when he's out there, if he feels this, we got this, okay, hit the switch buddy. Then we've got that information coming back in. So it's all about making a plan that we get as maximum out of that time as we can to try to go forward for the next part. And then on top of that, you have the mighty Michelin.

point that comes into it. So Michelin is a chemical tire. So it's the easiest way that I can explain it. So a chemical tire from Michelin's point of view is that Michelin need Michelin rubber on the track so that it makes a chemical reaction that starts to work. Example, a Bridgestone or Pirelli tire works where it works on the roughness of the stone or the surface and the heat and everything else. Michelin don't work like that. Michelin works in this way of, as I say, a chemical tire. So when you go to a green track,

Angus Norton (44:24.418)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Trevathan (44:54.66)
the amount of grip that you have is disaster because it's just every track you go to at the beginning of the weekend is green as we call it, which means no rubber down. And then it's a, the first session is just struggling. So if you try to test too much in the first session or understand, you get lost very, very quickly. So it's better that you just bring up the track.

Angus Norton (45:02.99)
Hmm.

Angus Norton (45:13.319)
I never knew that. Wow. So literally rubber on the track. Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (45:17.626)
Yes, you need rubber on the track. And then the other problem we have is that when there's two different rubbers. So example, you have a weekend where we go, we are the first on the motor three and motor two go on the track. OK, they don't lay a lot of rubber. We go down and put our rubber down. Then they're back on the track. So every time we go down, the track is getting more rubber, which makes it better. But we need we lose some grip every time or the grip changes. And then example, warm up. Warm up is the only time of the weekend where we've done the sprint race.

And then we do the next session is our rubber on the track again. It's the best grip of the weekend. It's also cooler, but then you've changed the bike maybe from the sprint. The rider goes out and go, wow, you fixed everything. It's fantastic. And then you go to the race and you go, goes, holy shit, what happened? I have no grip again. You know, so it's really tricky to understand all these parts and you, this is experience that lets you understand what you should do and what you should not do again in these times. So you don't get lost. Cause for me, the key in motor to be at the moment is don't get lost.

You know, you see many guys who just go around in a circle all weekend. You know, they start at one point and by the time they come on Sunday, they're back there. But the guy, you've just wasted so much time. And every time the guy's out on track, he's riding a different motorcycle. You know, there is also these things in a motorcycle that is the character of the bike. This is what it is. You know, you ride a Harley Davidson or you ride a Japanese bike or you ride a European bike. It's got this character. It's got this feel. You can't change a character with a setup. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks.

Angus Norton (46:28.024)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (46:44.309)
There's no way the character is the character, but you have to find and use the character as the strong point of the bike. So these are the parts that we need to make sure we get 100 % correct in a weekend. And this part, we have to make sure that we don't go too far away of, or make it as worse. You know what I mean? You try to find a balance, but you have to find the strong point of that character. And also I always try to teach my riders to don't talk to me about character in the weekend because there's nothing in this truck and there's nothing in this garage that's going to be able to fix it.

This bike is what it is, this character. So don't talk to me if it's a setup or something like that. You as a rider need to understand that, Paul can help me with this. I need this different, I need this different position. I need somehow to turn a little bit more or the bike's a bit heavy and change of direction. Or is there any way to find some more grip or some more pitching so I can rotate a little bit faster so I can finish the corner a bit quicker? This stuff we can work on. But the pure character of the motorcycle, you can't.

Angus Norton (47:40.536)
This is, I mean, this stuff is real, is so gold and it's gold because I'm a total geek when it comes to writing. And obviously I'm just track day club racer guy, but one of the things that strikes me, listen to you talk, especially with your background is you must have seen, and I want to talk about young writers because I've had Red Bull rookies cup writers on the podcast. I've had up and coming champions, Christian Daniel, who's an American and a rebel rookies cup. He's the first American actually to podium on the rebel rookies cup, which is cool. yeah.

Paul Trevathan (48:07.155)
Yeah, yeah, I his name actually got there.

Angus Norton (48:09.612)
Yep. Kenzai Matsuhura who's too young for the Wookiees Cup, but he's probably going to get it next year. There's a few Americans coming through. Kayla Yakov, who's actually a young lady. He doesn't like being called that because she races with all the guys in Moto America and she's podiuming in the super sport class, which is cool. But what I noticed about all these kids is they have this level of maturity that, I mean, it's like you're talking to an adult.

Paul Trevathan (48:26.004)
Okay.

Angus Norton (48:35.114)
And these kids that you see coming through their ability to articulate things. Like I'm sure you've noticed a difference, you know, 20 years ago, or maybe even earlier, you know, lot of these, maybe these writers weren't as focused on fitness awareness, focused on, on data. just kind of went out there and rode, you know, of course I've got to talk about Pedro Acosta. Okay. I know all of these, I know all of the writers you work with are the top percent of a percent in the world. So it's not like you have a talent problem, but.

the, feedback cycle, you're not coaching writers on how to hit their apex or, know, how to let, know, you're not doing any of that shit. So, how much are you allowed to talk about Pedro as a, as a, as a writer you're working with and, and, what's it like working with someone like that? And you've also got Danny Projosa sitting hanging around giving cool feedback too. Right. So what's that? Tell me a bit about like, Paul. Yeah, man. He, yeah. He got top 10 week before last. I was like, yeah.

Paul Trevathan (49:25.769)
Yeah, exactly. my old rider, Paul, yeah, mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, it's the world's fastest test rider at the moment. But yeah, it's crazy. I mean, you can get goosebumps thinking about it. when you get the chance to work with these rare talent, I mean, it's phenomenal what these guys can do. And like you say, it's been a long time since I worked with a young kid, know, like...

Pedro, if I've got a daughter the same age, for example. And so when they said, okay, you're going to work with Pedro, was like, hell. I was like, you know, but like you said, this, thing that stands out is this maturity they have. You know, it's, incredible. He's so mature for his age. And, know, of course he hasn't spent a lot of time at school and he hasn't done all the studying, but his world knowledge or his way of acting and understanding. mean, he's told me also many times he he's born in the wrong time. He should have been.

Angus Norton (50:01.335)
Hahaha!

Paul Trevathan (50:22.996)
90s kid, you know should have been at 21 in the 90s. He said that era suits him so much more You know, he's a very very straight man unbelievably straight Whatever comes in his mouth will come out of his mouth This is also super clear and he gets him in trouble sometimes but honestly what what you see on TV and in the interviews or whatever That's just Pedro Acosta. He's like that in the box from morning to night and it is and I know some people think it's him

Angus Norton (50:28.59)
Hmm.

Paul Trevathan (50:49.502)
trying to show off or something, it's not about showing off, it's just about who he is as a guy, you know? And then you start thinking about what the talent you have. I mean, as you said, there was the old days when, you know, talking about Pitt, Pitt was, of course he had talent, but he was a bloody hard worker. And then I worked also with Stephen Evans, who was completely the opposite. He was so much talent that it was ridiculous. And he kind of worked. Don't get me wrong, he was not unfit, but he was not putting in the effort of the other guys. And then something changed and then...

Stefan decided to train hard. So he put in the effort that the other guys are putting in and then all of a sudden they become unbeatable. You know, and then these other guys are just like, and the chance has gone to try to do something more to be better than those guys. So this mentality is in the sport now, you know, and that's why I think you find the cream of the cream inside this MotoGP class. Now, most of them have all been at least one time world champion.

They've all at least fought for a world champion and lost by a couple of points. know, you honestly, all of them with without a doubt are fantastic. And any one on the day with the right luck and the right machine could probably even win. You know, there's that much talent on the grid, but then you get these super one. And I mean, the Pedro Costa thing, the shock for me was the biggest shock that I.

that I've had with him is just his ability to take in information and then turn it around and put it on the track. If you talked about like the electronics, you talk about the ride height devices. mean, most guys, as they come as a rookie, you put them on the motor to be bike and they look at all the buttons and the levers and they go, holy shit. I'm not going to touch any of that all day. I'm going to worry about that in Spain. You know, I just need to ride the bike because they only get one day in Valencia. Pedro went out there and pushed every button within eight laps.

He started using the ride height device from the first flying. He started to, and you just like, and he was just so in, in, in tranced looking at the thing. Okay, what's this do? Okay. What can I do with that? This, this, but it all went in and he just went out and he just, he just did it. And I'm just like, holy %$#!. You know, and then he was like, okay, so what happens if I need more engine brake? What does more engine brake do? What? And then we said, okay, but we can do it also on different lean angles. The last part of the corner entering the apex, we can.

Paul Trevathan (53:07.222)
make any level or any different angle you want. we start to play and he just took it and he was like, I remember this time, one track, I would maybe have needed that, would have been a fantastic tool. So he's fully into all the technology, like you don't believe, and the way he can take all that information in, plus also the riding tips. You know, I've got a fantastic guy next to me. We call it the old school data guy, you know, but he's not really that, he's a performance engineer, I'd call him, and he's

sits between me and my strategy guy and his job is just to be the policeman. So he's the policeman for the riders riding. He's the policeman for the electronics. If he sees some strategy, hey, why have I got so much engine? Why you got engine brake here? It looks like it's pushing. Binder's using this level. Why are we here? Paul, Paul, I see bloody chatter there. Why haven't you done anything about that? So he's a really good guy to, and I'd like to say I call him the policeman, but he's giving tips all the time about riding. And it's nice because we're in there, we have three guys on a bench.

Basically on a desk, he sits in the middle and then Pedro always comes and sits whatever side between us. And then the videos are on, we're re-watching the videos, we're looking at the data and it just becomes a massive team meeting. But it's constant all day long and into the night, know, and there's a, but this is this guy, he's pushing everyone so hard. And the thing is he works so hard. So he's this fantastic talent that works hard and just pushes people in.

Angus Norton (54:28.333)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Trevathan (54:32.479)
You know, I always have a saying when I was working with guys, you know, if you give me 100%, I'll give you 120. But if you give me 90, I'll give you 60. Because I'm only here to get the most out of everything and I'm not going to travel around the world and leave my family behind for just somebody who's not really interested. You know, but then you've got the problem with him where he gives 120 already and then I'm like, I don't think I can even meet, you know what I mean? It's a, but this is the, And yeah, this,

Angus Norton (54:54.284)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great nugget, man. That's a great leadership nugget right there. Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (55:01.258)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, it's something that, you know, he just extracts everything out of you, you know. You wouldn't believe how much time at home you just think about the bloody things and sometimes something will pop in your mind and then all of sudden you're on the phone with him and then you're, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it like that and boom. And it's just constantly, and he's the other way around and we have a lot of contact, you know, and stuff. yeah, he's just pushing us all to be better, you know, and the frustrations at the beginning of the year.

That was maybe some people say nasty comments, but that's who he is. He got promised to have a world championship winning bike and he rode the same bike as he did last year at the beginning of the year. So he was angry. He was angry at the country. He was angry at the world. Nobody foresaw the situation and trust me, Katie didn't do it deliberately. But for Pedro, it was really, really hard to take. And I think for him, felt like maybe he'd been lied to.

Angus Norton (55:43.203)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (55:59.452)
It wasn't the case of course, you know, it was to get them back on the rails there and to understand that this year is lost and we still have to get something out of it. I think was the better way to look at it and try to do it from there.

Angus Norton (56:11.84)
I don't believe anything I read on the internet anyway. There's just so much bullshit. You weren't bringing up rumors and stuff. Hey, quick time check. know it's late for you. Can we go for a few more minutes?

Paul Trevathan (56:21.768)
Yeah, yeah, no worries,

Angus Norton (56:23.202)
Yep. Yeah. Sweet, sweet, sweet. Cause, yeah, I mean, obviously he's, what some would call an alien, right. And the 1 % of the 1 % of the best riders, he's like the 1 % of that. And, and, you can, I can see that and, and, and the pressure on the bike off the bike. that's also clear. What, are the, what are the things I'm curious about is, you know, I, I sponsored, call Matt Buchanan, for one of his rounds, you know, he's a Kiwi and Moto3 as you know, and, I, and some of these kids I meet.

Some of these kids, you know, when I'm looking at Moto3 and Moto2, Moto2 is probably closest to world super bike maybe in some levels in terms of just the style of the bike, the weight of it and stuff. when you look at Moto3, there's a lot of like, okay, you know, getting the slipstream is important. All these things are important. But the bigger the bike gets, physical, know, being physical, being fit, being mentally tough, of course, there's a lot of differences.

I noticed that some kids are, they seem a little big for a Moto3 bike, but then they get to Moto2 and they've stopped growing and they're, but they're strong. and is it, is it, is it always a sure thing that a Moto3 world champion is going to be a MotoGP champion? And what are the outliers, you know, riders that come through and surprise you? Why do they surprise you? Let's say they, they do nothing in Moto3, maybe a little bit more on Moto2, but then come to MotoGP and Kegar. Do you have any insight into what the differences are there?

Paul Trevathan (57:47.526)
Good.

Paul Trevathan (57:52.678)
I I would say like, I think what you talk about now, like the kids being bigger and everything, I think this has a lot to do with the age rule now, you know, before you had 14 year old kids racing the world championship, which was maybe a little bit crazy. So you had these small kids now, now you got 18 year olds. So of course they're bigger and more mature. And that's, that's a difference that we feel in the paddock also. But yeah, the question I think, you know, there's,

Put it this way, you've got an example, you've got a child who goes to school, but before he goes to school, he's got parents who pushing the kid. So the kid can already read when he goes to school, he can already count, do calculations, whatever. He's fully advanced and they sell him off as being a super talent, you know? And I think, but then after a year or two, everyone catches up because the normal system then just comes back in place, you know? Then if somebody is really good and really talented naturally, they will start to shine.

And the other person will plateau. And I think what happens now with some of these cups and some of the countries and around the world, you get these guys who have had a more chance. They've had a better upbringing into the sport. They've been pushed harder. They've had the better machinery. They've had more chances. And then you get the ones sometimes who haven't had that. So they take longer to get to that plateau. So it is really hard, as you said, to know when you're taking on these kids, can they really do it or not?

I would say there's to go motor GP. Now there's a certain level of intelligence that perhaps the rider needs as well. You know, he needs to understand all these things about tire management, about working with the electronics, working with the team, working with the different nationalities because you can't just have your little family friend team as you go through the lab. You know, so it's really important that, the kid keeps growing. He keeps,

learning things and becoming broader in his mind and stuff like that. it's, I think some people generally suit bigger bikes also. They suit the bike that slides speaking with Pedro. He much more preferred motor three, the motor two motor three because it's still a, it is a prototype. It's a, has the stiff racing feel to it. It feels like a race bike. Plus there was more things that you could change on that bike than you could in the motor two motor two was quite frustrating for him.

Paul Trevathan (01:00:15.021)
He said it was a class that he believes maximally you need to spend maximum two years there. Otherwise you become stale because there's only one way to ride that bike fast. And when you figure that out, then you just have to do repeat, repeat, repeat, but you can't push yourself to learn other things when you're riding. It's quite, he said, it's quite frustrating and it feels more like a production class. Like you said about super sport, the, the, you know, the chassis week, it's soft. It's not giving that input that a racing bike. So the first thing he come off.

When he come off the motorchip bike, when he come in, he turned, you know, with a smile on his face like anything, and he just said, wow, it's a racing bike again. You know, this, this input that they have, the stiffness they, then, so it's, it's a tricky question, you know, but I really believe it's a lot of that stuff, you know, help parents push and maybe have the money to pay for better training and stuff like that. So some of that net, what we believe is natural talent turns out to be not so natural talent. It's just been hard work at that early age.

Angus Norton (01:00:51.352)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:01:11.053)
and may be given the right opportunities. So then it fades away when they hit the motor too.

Angus Norton (01:01:16.568)
Yeah. Well, you know, thank you for giving us some insight there. Cause I think there's some, so there's so many things that you probably just as part of your job, just maybe I'm not saying you take it for granted, but there's just so much stuff inside your head that I know I'm learning a lot. you know, as you said, I close out, cause I know you don't have a lot of time. I want to ask you bit about the U S situation, American racing. I don't know how, I don't know how close you are to it, but, yeah, there was a time when American races were world-class winning world championships, GP level, world super bike level.

In the US now, a company called Kramer, you're probably familiar with, they've built these race prototypes and they're investing in young racers in the US with the Moto America Junior Cup. know, Wayne Rainey and others are investing in the talent here. And you talked about your dirt bike background and motocross background. A lot of the kids from that era, Wayne Rainey's era, came up through flat track and they just seemed to have this immediate ability to ride a motorcycle, you know.

Paul Trevathan (01:01:50.412)
Yep. Yep.

Angus Norton (01:02:15.886)
I'm curious, how closely do you to the US scene, Moto America scene, and what do you think's happened? Because I feel like America has kind of dropped off the planet when it comes to like producing world-class riders. mean, we have, you know, we have, we have a few, but we don't have that many at your level. Do you have any insight into what's going on there or?

Paul Trevathan (01:02:36.514)
I mean, would look at it, example, even when the Australians or the Kiwis come over, you know, they don't travel to the other side of the world just to do okay. They go over there because they know maybe their parents have sold the house, they've remortgaged, whatever, they've put every last cent into it. So it's the only chance of their dream. So when you get, I would say that type of guy like the Americans in the early days, example with the Kiwis and the Aussies, they went over there for one thing and one thing only. They weren't going to get distracted.

And go spend a day on the beach or whatever. They went there to get the job done. They didn't want to live in Europe or they didn't want to, they wanted to be able to do that sport they love in their own country and be called a world champion, but they couldn't. So they went there with that target, you know, and I think with the U S thing, it's just too easy there. They can earn enough money to live well. They don't have this ambition. What is the world in America now? You know, you know, they, they think the world is there many times, you know, when you go into a bar or you talk about it, they don't really.

What's happening outside of America is not important enough anymore, you know, but in those days to be called a world champion really, really meant something. And to do that, you had to go across the other side of the world and fight, go through different languages, eat different foods. The border controls in those days was crazy. You'd spend two or three hours just parked up in queues, trying to get through the borders and stuff. It was tough. It was super, super hard, but these guys really wanted to be a world champion. And I think you still have it like, hopefully.

Cormac and all those guys have that same thing, you and it was, guess it was the same even as the mechanics, you know, we went there because we really, really wanted to go and be in the world championship motorcycle racing. So you gave everything, you know, and if you're, of course, if you sit in in Europe and you're an Englishman and you're like, to be honest, it sounds like a hard work. How many hours a day? Oh no, no, I would soon to be here. you know, and also become too easy, you know, because it wasn't such a big thing because it was easy enough to do.

But I think this is for me is what's happened a lot in America is just everything so professional there. You know, any sport they make instantly professional, they sell it as this is the best of the world and they get the money and they get the sport. I, at least I don't mean it in any disrespect to any of the riders or anything like that, but it's, it is, I see it like that, you know, and there's no need to be a world champion there anymore. There's no need to go across the world and fight and make it difficult for yourself when you can just live at home easy.

Paul Trevathan (01:05:00.604)
And like you said...

Angus Norton (01:05:00.885)
mate, you talking about? know, the world, the world series of baseball, only Americans play it, but they call themselves the world champions, man.

Paul Trevathan (01:05:07.506)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. mean, it's sad. We're laughing, but it is quite sad also. But yeah, there's a little bit of a frustrating thing when I... Yep.

Angus Norton (01:05:14.54)
I mean, yeah, it's interesting. Nah man, nah, be candid. Cause you know, I spend a lot of time at the track. do about 25 days a year at the track and I meet a lot of racers from all classes and spend time with them. can tell you, man, they're all ambitious, But it is expensive, you know, and guys like Christian Daniels, family moved to Spain. Kenzay spends half a year in Spain. He's only 14 years old. He just won the Moto America Mini Champ.

It is in Cormac. can tell you for sure. We stay in touch a lot. I told Cormac that when he gets his first podium, I'm going to buy him a coffee machine because he loves espresso. It's his thing. So I said, when he, when he gets his first podium, I'm going to buy him like a proper espresso machine. He's super, super ambitious and you know, his parents are also wonderful people. And, yeah, man, they are. And so I want to close on Kiwi stuff because even though it might not sound like a Kiwi anymore, my mates back home tell me I sound American.

Paul Trevathan (01:05:49.832)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:05:54.494)
Yeah, cool.

Paul Trevathan (01:05:58.686)
No, no, no, they're pushing really hard. They're pushing really hard, yeah.

Angus Norton (01:06:09.454)
Um, you know, I've been away for 25 years, like you long time, man. Like the people at the paddock wrecking the people in the paddock. think quite often Kiwis, we kind of think a lot higher than ourselves and anyone like, you know, New Zealand's the most beautiful country in the world. You know, why would you want to live anywhere else? And bloody Kiwis are awesome at everything. I think when you've been away for a while, you realize that we just, we just really patriotic, but like the people in the paddock. Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:06:09.756)
no diff.

Paul Trevathan (01:06:13.473)
Yeah, yeah, it's a long time.

Paul Trevathan (01:06:28.346)
We'll right back.

Exactly, Yeah.

Angus Norton (01:06:34.242)
Yeah, do people with a paddock recognize that the Kiwi Motorsport influence or do they see you as just part of the KTM machine?

Paul Trevathan (01:06:42.458)
I mean, I would say earlier, like in in the nineties, there was still that the Kiwis had a really good name in the paddock. You know, we were known as hard workers in those days when mechanics still had to drive the trucks and live on the road and be, you know, like Honda guys used to have to stay the whole year in oust and work on the bikes between the races and the workshop. And it was hard work there. And the Kiwis had a fantastic name, you know, and again, for that reason that they only went to Europe for that. didn't have to run home to go somewhere else. were.

Go to Europe for eight months a year and it would be flat out and fine. now I would say we just part of the machine a little bit. I mean, I've been there too long now, you know, maybe new ones coming out, but I wouldn't say that the MotoGP Patek is looking for Kiwis. If you know what I mean too, because that's a call of talent, if you like. You know, I don't, I, yeah, that's maybe changed a little bit more. Also us Kiwis always known to be able to work with their hands, you know.

Angus Norton (01:07:31.139)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:07:37.75)
And that was maybe the stronger part of us, you know, and now I would say most of the paddock they're looking, you know, like the feeding machine to Ducati is the universities in Italy, you know, the Belongia University and these sort of things. They're just plucking out the brightest minds and all the people there and feeding that. So that's changed, I would say. Definitely. But don't get me wrong, if you've got time and you want to do it, you can still do it. But I don't think now they really worry so much about where you come from.

Angus Norton (01:07:48.589)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:08:05.25)
It's more about how you get in there and give it a go, you know. But we have a good name. don't mean that that's fine. Everyone knows where Kiwis are. I mean, they in Holland, some of the guys, they call me the orange Kiwi, you know, because it's the jewel, you know, so it's a yeah, but it's fine. They know where I'm from. And I'm very, very proud of where I'm from. And nothing will change that. So.

Angus Norton (01:08:06.04)
Yeah, yeah, yep.

Angus Norton (01:08:25.262)
Yeah, man. Now me too. have, um, on my, I have a, on my arm here, have a CSS Fano right there, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I'm, I'm right there with you. Um, now I'm going to do a full circle to motors to motocross, and then we're going to, then I'm going to shut up because you started talking about motocross and, uh, we also sort of closed a little bit on Kiwi's, you know, role in motorsport. And, um, what strikes me and I'm talking about the talent again is what is it about

Paul Trevathan (01:08:31.523)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Angus Norton (01:08:54.4)
New Zealand women that have done so well in motocross. Cause you talked about the Kings, but you know, obviously, know, Katherine Prume, Courtney Duncan, Roma Edwards, know, I mean, as Annie Roberts, like, I had Avalon Lewis on the other day, you know, like, what is it? And like, what is it about? I mean, the whole, I don't want to get too much into the female topic because I don't want to piss people off, but I definitely want to see more women writing at a high level. Right. So you've got the FIM thing going on.

Paul Trevathan (01:09:09.817)
Yeah, yeah.

Angus Norton (01:09:23.954)
women's championship. You got to go check out Kayla, Kayla Yakov, if you haven't already. She is phenomenal talent. Like I think she could be the first woman to actually ride at the World SuperSport level, but what is it about women in motocross, Like the Kiwi girls, they just seem to be kicking ass. Why can't we get more Kiwi men kicking ass and road racing? You probably know all those girls, Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:09:46.925)
Yeah, it's a strange one because I mean, she's a tough sport. Yeah, I know them all. Yeah, exactly. It's a tough sport. mean, and I don't know, maybe Kiwi woman are tough. it's, yeah, I don't know. think also growing up, I mean, we had a girl motocrosses that we raced against in the South Island even and stuff. And it was never, I think we were really open and letting them participate, you know, it wasn't, you know what I mean? Maybe it's a New Zealand thing. I never thought that.

Angus Norton (01:09:58.882)
Hahaha

Paul Trevathan (01:10:15.764)
having a girl racer next to me was something that should be wild or bad. was just like, that's interesting. There's a girl racing today, you know, but it was never, you know, many, many countries or many things that they talk about women's rights and blah, blah, blah. But I think the key was where we were not that bad in our day at, you know, separating the boys and the girls, if you like, you know, I think my personal opinion, like growing up in New Zealand and those times and I never really felt that we were.

Angus Norton (01:10:39.756)
Yeah.

Paul Trevathan (01:10:43.212)
discriminating anything and if you wanted to have a crack, you have a crack at it. Maybe the good old Kiwi way of that, know, and then, like I said in the South, where we were, we had Courtney's farm that area was, it was such a big motocross thing going on, you know, with the clubs and, it was such a social thing. And I guess that you get involved or maybe she knew somebody who did it then all of sudden it was easy, but it is strange. And, but the problem is it's world talent. It's not that you just riding a motorcycle. It's actually really world talent. So.

Yes, it's crazy. It is crazy. It's a good question, hard to answer.

Angus Norton (01:11:15.02)
No. Yeah, man. Well, for the listeners that are wondering why I'm talking about this, Courtney Duncan won four world championships at motocross and then Catherine Prume won two. And so you've got like, you know, you've got six world championships between two women in the last 20 years were women from New Zealand. And so, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty cool, man. I really, I mean, there's so much more to talk about, but you're a busy guy running a really great team. I'm going to leave you with one more question and we're done.

Do you on the street? And if you do, what do you ride?

Paul Trevathan (01:11:49.302)
be honest, the last time I really had my own street bike was a Kawasaki Z600 at the time, ZXR600 when I was working with Kawasaki and I going back and forth the border. I haven't done a lot on the streets. When I was in the motocross, I did a lot of motocross riding because you could always take one of the training bikes, so that was easy. And it was a nice story. When I went road racing, we were just so busy and you're doing nothing. And then one time, Miguel Oliveira.

We're in Portugal and said, hey, let's go for a ride. And I think it'd been six or seven years that I've not been on a bike. we went EnduroRide. He organized a fantastic EnduroRide for 170K through the Portugal. And I honestly, that day was just reminding me so much more about why you fell in love with bikes. It was crazy. yeah, to be honest, I really liked the 990, the new one that's coming out from KTM.

Angus Norton (01:12:37.406)
yeah,

Paul Trevathan (01:12:45.25)
this thing I've seen a bit and maybe I would throw my leg over that if I had a chance.

Angus Norton (01:12:50.402)
Yeah, man. yeah. No, I'm definitely, I'm definitely eyeing up that as well. And the 1390 Super Duke. Yeah. Yeah. Man. I suppose you get your pick of bikes. So you probably get a bit of an employee discount, Well, hey, man. Look, I'm just a little guy in Seattle with a little podcast and you know, I really appreciate you making the time. And I know that all of the listeners really appreciate it as well. And

Paul Trevathan (01:12:57.4)
Yep. I know that's also a plus.

Paul Trevathan (01:13:02.965)
Yeah, I should hope so.

Angus Norton (01:13:18.254)
Mate, great weekend last weekend and it looks like you guys are starting to move forward nicely with both the teams. So you've got Gunter Steiner involved now too. He's hilarious. I never heard him, heard him swear. So well, he swears a lot, but it was pretty funny hearing him swear on the MotoGP broadcast.

Paul Trevathan (01:13:31.06)
Yeah, what a character. kind of, yeah, let's see. It's a bit chaos at the moment. anyway, anyway, Angus, you're super welcome. It was really nice to finally meet you. And, know, it's always nice to to let some people know more insights, you know, and it's it is difficult and we're not untouchable. We're just humans and we all share the same passion of bikes as your listeners do, you know. So not a problem to do this. It's sorry it took so long, but we can make it a regular thing or whatever you want to do. It's no big drama, you know, if you've got to.

Angus Norton (01:13:36.291)
Ha ha!

Paul Trevathan (01:14:00.904)
next time you have a few more questions or maybe some listeners want to know some more, then feel free to knock on the door again and see if we can organise something.

Angus Norton (01:14:09.282)
Yeah, mate. And if you ever come to Seattle, I have a batch up in the mountains. Batch is a Kiwi term, by the way, guys, for holiday house. And I have dirt bikes up there and we have really good single tracks. So yeah, yeah. I'll take Taki for a ride, I'm going to start. going to. No, mate, I keep offering everyone to come up and I've got a few track bikes you can take out as well on our on our little tracks that we have here. We have a Motor America track that I write at. It's pretty, it's pretty small by your standards. But I'm going to stop recording.

Paul Trevathan (01:14:18.664)
So... So dead. Be... Be careful what you wish for.

Paul Trevathan (01:14:33.056)
Now, I that's good.

Paul Trevathan (01:14:37.012)
No, but as I saw in the video, no.

Angus Norton (01:14:39.426)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The rich motorsport park is there's really only two tracks in the U S that have motor GP level now that's Austin, obviously, and maybe Laguna, but I've written Laguna, but that's probably too small now for your bikes. But, yeah, yeah, I'm going to stop recording yet. Sorry. No, no, no, no. Fuck man. If you want to say something and then we can say other stuff off camera because, you know, but, yeah, you're going to say something.

Paul Trevathan (01:14:51.303)
Yeah, yeah. What's this new one? sorry, you haven't stopped. No, sorry, maybe you've finished. You can speed your recording up.

Paul Trevathan (01:15:04.718)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's just that they're talking about that new place that the guy from Trackhouse is making, you know, or got something involved by Charlotte Charlotte there or something like that or something rock, something rock. Something. Yeah, there's something new. Apparently, I saw some design and there was something going on and they were pushing quite hard to to build a complex out there somewhere.

Angus Norton (01:15:15.911)
shit, I don't know about that. You might have some... yeah, you must have some insight.

Angus Norton (01:15:29.646)
Oh, that would be sweet. Yeah, that'd be sweet. Yeah, I think the video I, I'm going to have to look that up. Yeah. The video I sent you, of course I was on the good old small inline fours ZX4RR Kawasaki. I know you're an old Kawasaki guy. It was pretty funny running a 400 CC inline four. Cranking that around the track. Yeah, I was an old fat guy on the small bike. felt fast. I'm going to stop recording now and I'll say goodbye properly.

Paul Trevathan (01:15:31.239)
Yep, that looked quite attractive.

Paul Trevathan (01:15:47.729)
Yeah, but it's fun, huh? You felt fast.

Paul Trevathan (01:15:52.807)
Yeah, this doesn't

Angus Norton (01:15:59.075)
Thanks a lot for that. It was really awesome. So I'll stop recording.

Paul Trevathan (01:16:03.217)
Yep. No worries.

Angus Norton (01:16:05.354)
Sweet as.